War of the Burning Sky – Scouring of Gate Pass detailed impressions (spoilers)

[KidSnide]

Agreed. I hate skill challenges because they just seem so artificial. A single roll should suffice for most things.

Why does, "I try to sneak past the guard" or, "I try to convince the baron" have to involve fifteen seperate dice rolls? Perhaps they were trying to mitigate the effect one bad D20 roll might have on an important skill check, but in that case why not give them a +5 bonus to the check and have them roll a D10 instead of a D20? Or something like that that doesn't require vast amounts of dice rolling and spurious rubbish from players justifying using the History skill to shoe a horse.

I've been running WoBS over Fantasy Grounds, so it's a little harder than usual to gauge how much the PCs are enjoying the game. (I'll let Cerebral Paladin provide a player perspective if he's still following the thread.) But, from what I can see, I think the "convince an NPC" skill challenges work pretty well if you put enough emphasis on what the players are saying.

It has to be more than simply justifying a history check, so I would give -10, -5, 0, +5 or +10 modifiers depending on whether the players made intelligent arguments for why the NPC should go along with their idea or whether the players accidentally touched on something about which the NPC was particularly sensitive. With those kind of modifiers, the players have to pay attention to what they are saying. But still - it also matters which characters are saying it - so there is also a benefit to playing a character with superior social skills. Sure, you could get an auto-success if a skilled PC says something really intelligent and on-point. But, when you think about it, that *should* be an auto-success.

-KS

 

[Skyscraper]

On skill challenges, after having tried them in other games I DM or have DMed, I rarely use the skill challenge mechanics at all.

However, the entire skill challenge topic, together with reading a lot about it on forums, has opened up a different approach to handling social RP situations and non-social RP situations.

For social RP situations, I don't really use skill challenges (but I do ask for social skill checks when I wonder how an NPC would react) but the skill challenge mechanic has showed me or reminded to try to avoid dead ends in social interactions. In particular I try to avoid ultimatums or other verbal exchanges where the NPC will bring the PCs towards a final choice from which there might be no way out if they reply in a certain way. This might appear obvious, but it was a good reminder for me to keep things open ended and at worst, to allow them a way out but with consequences.

For non-social skill situations, e.g. presently my players in a 4E-modified version of Shackled City are trying to evade a strong opposition who is pursuing them through caves and then a jungle, I use a skill-challenge like mechanic but with no requirement for a predetermined number of successes or failures and, importantly, no predetermined outcome. The players have been proposing different uses for their skills and rolling skill checks, and I use those skill check results (with a DC depending on how hard what the PCs are trying to accomplish is according ot me) to determine where the story will go from there. There results what I find to be a rather interesting and dynamic chase through the caves and jungle the outcome of which the players can really influence. I've used something similar for their prison breakout earlier, for getting an old gnome-constructed lift to work, ... These are story elements that I think really benefit from skill usage, and an open-ended skill challenge type mechanic (i.e. with no predetermined number of successes or failures and no predetermined outcome) is well adapted to them IMO. The general idea is to move the game according to the skill check results and if I eventually find that success or failure suits the situation, then I just stop the "skill challenge" there and they obtain success or failure. Often they achieve success, but it might come with a drawback if they missed some skill rolls, e.g. the guards were on to them when they broke out of prison. I try to use missed skill checks to add something interesting to the story, for example at some point they missed an Athletics skill check opposed to the enemy's Athletics skill check during their chase and the enemys sprinted, gained a bit of ground and one of them attacked with a blinding encounter power, but missed.

Sky

 

[Skyscraper]

Just because the PCs solved a problem (and therefore got XP) doesn't mean it was the "right" problem to solve, or that it was even necessarily a good idea. If it still troubles you, take a Magic Marker to your printout, cross the encounter out, and don't even present the PCs with it. Have the PCs save some citizens from a collapsing (possibly burning) building instead. Or maybe present them with the encounter but give them XP for snubbing the selfish prat for the greater good. As with all published adventures, you have to make sure it's tailored to your group.

Yes, yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying, consider me armed with a magic marker

 

[Skyscraper]

Skyscraper: It would be really interesting to have your feedback after DM-ing this module.

I'll try to remember to post about it.

 

[Stormrazor2000]

I finished running Scouring about a month ago in my online campaign. FYI I am running the 3.5 version. I had the same impression as you on some of the encounters. Many I skipped, and some I added based on the flow of what the PCs decided to do. For example, the fire you mentioned. The group wanted to skip it, but Torrent felt bound to help. So they actually split up and went without a cleric for several sessions.

The main thing I like about the AP so far is that it has tons of background, so as a DM I have a lot to draw on when PCs go off the rails, which my players do like clockwork.

I'm currently in the Fire forest and have done the exact same thing with adding and subtracting encounters. It has worked out well so far.

 

[Morrus]

Yeah, I read page 20 but it doesn't say what it does

What doesn't say what what does?

 

[Skyscraper]

What doesn't say what what does?

I think he's referring to the dianonem. That appears to be a translation device if I understand the other posters correctly.

 

[OnlineDM]

Just for everyone's information (and seeking their input!), I'm getting ready to run The Scouring of Gate Pass via MapTool and Skype for a group of online players, beginning on July 23 (Friday). We've played a single one-shot adventure so far as a group, and it was lots of fun. Now we're going to try a campaign, building characters and their relationships to one another, getting everyone involved in the setting, etc. I'm pretty excited about it, although I'll admit that I'm woefully underprepared so far (I have lots of MapTool work to do tomorrow to get everything ready).

I'll be blogging about my experience as we go, so if anyone is curious to see how it looks to play this campaign please tune in!

And thank you all for your insight on how this adventure plays out. I'm very much looking forward to running it.

 

[mattdusty]

The Dianoem (a dwarven artifact that becomes important in adventure 3, see page 20 of scouring of Gate Pass) would be a great call. Or if you want to be amusing, you could have Katrina send them to get the scroll she wants to leave her brother. (Of course, then he would later give it back to the PCs to take back to Katrina--although the players would likely not realize this until adventure 3 either.)
Berc

This is not in the 3.5 version. Is this something new in the 4e version? Can anybody that's played both versions let me know if this is just a once or twice thing or is there new stuff spread throughout all of 4e modules now?