Warblade maneuvers

[castro3nw]

Seeing as he can recover the two maneuvers as a swift action and an attack, he could attack with Moment of Perfect Clarity maneuver for a 100+ damage combined with his actual attack that round.

First off, like Elethiomel said.. you can't refresh and use maneuvers in the same round.

As an aside, what are people's opinions about this class? He's excellent at battlefield control with his maneuvers, at pure combat, in social situations (diplomacy and intimidate are class skills), and even in terms of hit die he has a d12. He receives a lot of additional special class abilities (uncanny dodge for one), he can resist many of the mages spells with his maneuvers (subbing concentration checks for saving throw checks - what with his signficant intelligence and skill focus - would be a tad bit insane), he can resist grapples/trips/disarms easily with the right stances, and he can also do Greater Weapon Focus/Greater Specialization with every weapon he has at his disposal at any time. I like him, but I think encounters should be scaled appropriately.

Secondly, you're right, he can resist spells with his skill check for saving throw maneuvers, resist trips/such, and do the whole entire focus/spec. tree. But, that said... With the small number of maneuvers readied, every maneuver used for taking care of saving throws is a significant portion of your resources.
I'm playing a warblade at level 9, and can only have 4 maneuvers readied. Moment of Perfect Mind takes up fully 1/4 of my maneuvers, and doesn't get used every encounter. Even when it does get used, it's only good for the first will save, usually. With it taking an immediate action, you can't refresh next round, and can't use maneuvers the next round when you do refresh. One will save/2-3 rounds... Not that broken.

As for the stances, Warblade only gets 4 in his whole career w/o feats. And due to the way stances are arranged, and when he gains them... typically 2 of those stances are stuck at first level stances. Your first non-1st level stance comes in at char. level 10, or through a feat.

Speaking of feats, you won't have that feat to spare for a stance if you go through the whole weapon focus/spec trees. You do get several bonus feats, but they're mostly later in his career and none of those are on the list. (that said, its a good list)

His only problem is that he can't fly, but even THEN if he switches to ranged combat - with his maneuvers and stances - he can withstand the flying/spell slinging mage and counterattack with ranged weaponry (until the flight spell wears, in which case he cuts through the mage like hot butter.)

And lastly almost every maneuver only works in melee combat. Ranged combat is largely out of the question. The warblade gets no proficiencies in any non-throwing ranged weapons. The only ones he gets are for melee weapons that can also be thrown, and any he's specifically taken a feat to be proficient with. Largely the answer to the flying/spell slinging mage is to have a potion of fly on hand, or throw rocks/cry.

Warblade is good.. and it is powerful. but there are downsides as well... far from broken.

 

[RigaMortus2]

For one thing, banning any classes in a campaign is kinda cruel, bow-fighters and a few other things can be fun, and some people actually like the bladness of the class (doesn't tell you at all how to play your character).

Unless, you know, your campaign calls for specific classes. I've played in games where all base classes were banned, only classes from the Complete Books and alt books (like MoI and ToB) were allowed. It was a lot of fun. I don't think it is at all cruel. Sometimes a campaign calls for specific things.

 

[SadisticFishing]

Unless, you know, your campaign calls for specific classes. I've played in games where all base classes were banned, only classes from the Complete Books and alt books (like MoI and ToB) were allowed. It was a lot of fun. I don't think it is at all cruel. Sometimes a campaign calls for specific things.

Hrm. Maybe it's just my group of players then, but that would get silly. Banning all the PHB classes would just mean people played Warblade instead of Fighter, Swordsage instead of monk/rogue, and warlock instead of wizard/sorceror.. Favored Soul instead of Cleric. Woop-dee-doo.

And banning Fighter because it's slightly less powerful than Warblade is different from banning the entire PHB

 

[hong]

Hrm. Maybe it's just my group of players then, but that would get silly. Banning all the PHB classes would just mean people played Warblade instead of Fighter, Swordsage instead of monk/rogue, and warlock instead of wizard/sorceror.. Favored Soul instead of Cleric.

Yes. Your point being...?

 

[Vurt]

I was wondering, can a Warblade stack Time stands still with Raging Mongoose? Time stands still has an initiation action of one full round action while Raging Mongoose has an initiation time of a swift action. That would mean the warblade can perform 8 attacks (TSS) + 2 attacks (RM) + 1 possible attack (haste) for a total of 11 attacks per round. If the Warblade has TWF and GTWF, then change that to 14 attacks (TSS) + 4 attacks (RM) + 1 possible attack (haste) for a total of 19 attacks per round! I was wondering whether he can substitute any of those attacks with a grapple/trip/disarm attempt? It seems mechanically sound.

Time Stands Still is a Strike.

Because strikes allow for a specific form of attack, you cannot benefit from spells or effects that grant you extra attacks when making a strike (such as the haste spell or a speed weapon). You are not taking a full attack action when you initiate a strike, even if its initiation action is 1 full-round action. In addition, you cannot combine special attacks such as sunder or bull rush with strikes, even if you have feats that make such special attacks more potent. However, some strikes enable you to make special attacks as part of their initiations; see the specific maneuver descriptions for details.

So by my reading, Raging Mongoose combined with Time Stands Still wouldn't work, as the former is an effect that grants additional attacks. Similarly, the entire TWF feat chain doesn't get you anything, and you can't Cleave if you drop a foe. Also, no to grapple/trip/disarm attempts. Looks like your warblade is back down to 8 regular attacks (which is nothing to scoff over) with Time Stands Still.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[hong]

The consensus is that the text on p.43 is basically restating the normal rules for actions. Most strikes take a standard action to complete, and hence no haste attacks, no extra attacks, and so on. Time stands still is an exception in that it explicitly grants 2 full attack actions.

Previous thread here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=193520

 

[SadisticFishing]

Yes. Your point being...?

The difference between a Cleric and a Favored Soul, when both are built exactly the same way, is completely inconsequential.

My real point is that completely arbitrary DM imposed restrictions are annoying.

 

[hong]

The difference between a Cleric and a Favored Soul, when both are built exactly the same way, is completely inconsequential.

My real point is that completely arbitrary DM imposed restrictions are annoying.

Ah, but it leads to instant curbing of the usual noises about how warblades pwn fighters and whatnot. Since noone is a fighter, noone is also in danger of being pwned.

 

[SadisticFishing]

Ah, but it leads to instant curbing of the usual noises about how warblades pwn fighters and whatnot. Since noone is a fighter, noone is also in danger of being pwned.

.. then don't play a fighter, is my point.

The DM shouldn't HAVE to arbitrarily make decisions about what classes can be played. If there's a story driven reason that I can't play a fighter, sure! ... but.. good luck.

 

[hong]

.. then don't play a fighter, is my point.

And so, one way or another, there will be no fighters in the game. Which is basically what was said.

The DM shouldn't HAVE to arbitrarily make decisions about what classes can be played. If there's a story driven reason that I can't play a fighter, sure! ... but.. good luck.

You'll be amazed how many problems arbitrary banning solves.