D&D 5E Warden (Ranger Archetype)

77IM

Explorer!!!
Supporter
I have just uploaded Warden (Ranger Archetype) to the downloads area.

So the other day Mike Mearls mentioned something about the warden, and it got me thinking. From a story-first perspective, the warden's story is somewhere in between the druid and the ranger.

So you could start with the druid, but you'd need to give them martial weapons and bonus hit points (the 4E warden was a big sack of hit points). The druid also has a ton of spellcasting that the warden never did, and with the 5E druid there's a lot of tension between spellcasting and wild shaping.

The ranger, OTOH, already has the warrior chassis, and has spell slots that he's not doing much with (well, he can cast spells with them, but doesn't have a good alternative option the way the paladin does). Ranger also doesn't have much extraneous stuff that warden lacks -- Favored Enemy is not particularly wardeny, but you can pick things like undead and aberrations that are classic warden foes.

I stripped the warden down to its barest, most memorable feature -- the forms. I made transforming cost a spell slot, as the ranger's spell list isn't particularly impressive, but the spell levels follow a useful progression for this sort of thing.

The basis for balance here is the awesome spell armor of agathys. It's a fantastic little spell that gives you 5 temp HP per spell level, and every single time you get hit, deals 5 damage to the attacker. But it only lasts until the temp HP run out -- and since it only deals damage when you lose temp hp, that's going to happen really fast. I tried to give the warden forms' damage-boosting portions a similar cost, either in actions or reactions or required circumstances, and deal 5 or less damage per spell level. Also I tried to make them melee-focussed and not dish out too many status effects. This keeps the warden a target, which makes it more likely that the temp HP will drain off quickly.

Still, I worry that some of the forms may be overpowered, and that they simultaneously be underpowered if the temp HP runs out too fast. This mechanic may also incentivize the warden to not get hit, which is counter to the tankish nature of the original warden class. The way I imagine this going down is that a warden who means business will burn through spell slots just to stay in guardian form.

You can find the file here in the downloads section. Please use this thread for comments.
 

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Unwise

Adventurer
I had always thought that the nature paladin was pretty much a warden. I have never really given it much thought past that though.

That looks like some nice work, two things strike me though. FIrstly, I know role don't mean much anymore, but the Warden was solidly a tank. Losing all of his tanking abilities moving to 5e changes him significantly, making him 90% just a ranger. So it is hard to define what makes a Warden a Warden now. I think that choosing forms is as good a thing as any, but a translation from 4e to 5e is often going to feel like somebody has lost their main purpose/role. The warden is not unique in this regard, many classes are the same.

Secondly, while the 5 THP look handy, from what I see of the forms I would not want them to drop off, so I would avoid getting hit like the plague. This effectively makes me play like a DPS rather than a tank. I don't want to be the one taking damage so that I can keep using my cool abilities. This seems at odds with the traditional wardens role. Would it be better to disconnect the end point of the form from the THP? So the warden could get hit and keep doing their main schtick. If I have THP I feel like I should be the one getting hit.
 


Ok, so for those of us who don't speak 4e....

What's a Warden?

A nature warrior whose main gig is to turn into something like the hybrid form that werewolves, werebears, etc. have, although the hybrid might be part plant, part elemental, or part storm (it is only a small exaggeration to say that every class in 4e had a storm variant) instead of part animal; at high levels you get some pretty wild stuff like part chimera, part robot (star metal warrior), or part phoenix. In hybrid form, it had a once a fight special attack, and some enhanced defensive abilities that lasted for as long as you were in hybrid form. Also, regardless of whether it was in hybrid form, if a warden hit you, vines would wrap around you.

The wrapping vines and special attacks (as smites) got into the oath of the ancient paladins (and all the paladins' capstones are pretty similar to the hybrid forms). Mike Mearls has recently talked about looking at a druid warden and/or a barbarian one (as well as the desire for some unspecified subclass[es] that would use "primal spirits", which were the source of the warden's powers).
 

ccs

41st lv DM
A nature warrior whose main gig is to turn into something like the hybrid form that werewolves, werebears, etc. have, although the hybrid~~~~

Thanks for the explanation.

From the sounds of that I think the OP (and Mearls) are on the completely wrong track trying to make this a sub-class/archtype of any existing class.
Their going to waste a bunch of effort & never really nail it because of trying to force the proverbial square peg in a round hole.
Design this as its own unique class.

Ditch whatever it's 4e backstory is.

And for gods sake find it a better name.
 

Thanks for the explanation.

From the sounds of that I think the OP (and Mearls) are on the completely wrong track trying to make this a sub-class/archtype of any existing class.
Their going to waste a bunch of effort & never really nail it because of trying to force the proverbial square peg in a round hole.
Design this as its own unique class.

Ditch whatever it's 4e backstory is.

And for gods sake find it a better name.

I would buy that, particularly since the hybrid concept could fit more than just nature stuff (I could see someone transfigured into a celestial, manifesting an aberration infection, being possessed by a fiend, or slowly turning into an undead).

Primal spirits and fey were pretty distinct in 4e, but the fluff under the fey type in the monster manual fuses them together (not to mention the frequent use of "fey spirits" in the conjure/find spells), so I am not sure how separate ones would work (although I have suggested in other threads that they could make a more offense-based version of the path of the ancestral guardians barbarian who could use them for a moderate ranged attack; your ancestors want you to live long enough to make more descendants, so they are protecting you, but the primal spirits are more interested in hurting the despoilers of the earth).
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
I love designing new options.
Yours look good, I'd play that. I'll propose something different, for the sake of creative inspiration.
I'll take the Valor Bard/Bladesinger model tacked on the druid class, using its wild shape to fuel its battle form.

New Druid archetype: Circle of the Warden

lvl2: Font of Life: +1 HP per level. Gain lvl THP when succeeding on a Saving Throw
lvl 2: Nature's Form: Can use Wild Shape to become one with nature for 1 minute, gaining 3 x level THP and increasing natural size by one step. Choose one option that represent the shape you take when assuming a Nature's Form:
Form of the Old Oak - Resist Blunt and Pierce, 5' around is difficult terrain
Form of the Mountain Thunder - Bonus Action: All creature in 5' make Con save or Prone+Deaf
Form of the Silver Phoenix - Bonus Action: Allies deal + Wis Fire damage against enemies in 5' of you, regain 3 HP when dealing damage to a creature in 5' of you.

lvl6: Extra Attack

lvl10: Ensnaring Vines: You gain the Thorn Whip cantrip if you do not have it. You can use this cantrip when making an OA an you can use the cantrip's range to make OA.

lvl14: Greater Form: Spend 2 Wildshape use to assume a Greater Form. Your size grows by two rank.
Form of the Horned Champion: +10 Speed, +4 AC against OA, enemies pushed 10' and prone when hit.
Form of Ash and Smoke: Become mist, grant heavy cover, every enemy within the zone make a Con save or take 2d10 fire damage and poisoned condition (save 1/2 damage, no poison)
Form of th First Hunter: Allies gain advantage against foes next to you, gain can see Hidden and Invisible creatures, can Dash or Hide as a bonus action.
 
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Zafri Mollon

First Post
fun

Seems like an interesting archetype, although yeah I'm not sure if it isn't more of a paladin thing.

I wish classes had the ability to burn HD for special abilities (maybe something along the lines of the 4E attack options).
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
It's funny what we attach to names. Having never played 4e I saw this thread and thought "oh a Ranger Warden, so it will have more defensive tricks than your typical Ranger".

Then I see the shapeshifting and remember oh yeah its that Warden that I'd vaguely heard about but don't, you know, have attachment to because I've never played it.
 


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