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D&D 5E Warforged Clockwork Soul Sorcerer. Is It fun and iconic?

Hohige

Explorer
Hi gentlemen, the thread Wizard x World (D&D 5E - 20th level Sorcerer vs the world) , I made a character in order to win everything.

But here, I will bring you a totally themed, fun and totally unexpected build. Yes, totally metallic. A Warforged Clockwork, being thematically perfect, fun, versatile and very powerful.

The objective here is to have fun with iconic characters.


The Warforged Sorcerer, The Machine of War.

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Name: Ustur Stukov
Class: Sorcerer (Clockwork Soul)
Race: Warforged
Alignment: Lawful Evil when hunting, Lawful Neutral as a Judge
Background: Criminal Spy
Level: 14

Stats

STR 8 CON 18 DEX 16 WIS 16 INT 8 CHA 8
AC: 16 Extended Mage Armor + 1 Warforged + Shield (If applies): Maximum 22
HP : 142 + 15 Extended level 4 Aid + 20 Extended Armor of Agathys + 22 (Bastion of Law feature) = 200 HP
Feats: Skill Expert (Stealth, +1 COn), Resilient (Wisdow, +1 Wis), Tough

Saving Throws: +9 Con +8 Wis + 4 CHA.
It automatically pass all Wis and con Saving Throw with Trance of Order

Metamagic: Quicken, Extended, Subtle

Attack roll: With Trance of Order + Magic Weapon upcasted to level 6, It has minimum 20~30 attack rolls. Casting with Booming Blade + Seeking spell, It's a reliable attack roll. You certainly hits.


Cantrips: Known; Mage Hand, Booming Blade, Minor Illusion, Bladeward, Mold Earth

Spell known:

1 - Armor of Agathys, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor, Shield, Magic Missale, Sleep, Longstrider
2 - Aid Spell, Magic Weapon, Invisibility, Mirror Image
3 - Counterspell, Dispel, NonDetection, Fly, Blink
4 - Dimention Door, Polymorph, Greater Invibility, FireShield
5 - Animate Objects, Wall of Force
6 -
7 - Etherealness



Highlights:

- A true tanker: 200 HP (level 14), Mirror Image, Blink, Clockwork's Bastion of Law, Trance of Order, Greater Invisibility, Invisibility, Quickened Spells + Blade Ward, Absorb Elements. You really are an enviable tanker, perhaps the greatest tanker in the game. Advantage against him is useless (Trance of Order).

Wis and Con saving throw spells and abilities doesn't work against you. Since there is a minimum 18 of saving throw (Trance of Order). The spells that can really threaten you are con or wis saving throw. Becoming a highly reliable tanker and "Immune" to control spells.

You can survive a lot of Quicken Polymorph into a Giant Ape or T-rex, attack on same turn and still 19~29 concentration check rolls while transformed with Aid, Armor of Agathys, Shielf of Order, Blink, Mirror Image and +20~30 attack roll... It's incredible good to survive and damage.You can do this at any time, several times.

- Anti-melee: Fireshield, Armor of Agathys + Clockwork Shield of Law + Resistence against weapon damage trully punishes melee creatures a lot.


-The best concentration caster in the game: With Trance of Order + 8 Con saving throw. You have at least 18 in concentration checks. Along with Absorb Elements, Blink, Mirror Image and mainly Clockwork's Shield of Law that absorb damage, breaking your concentration is almost impossible.

Bigby Hand, Extended Animate Objects level 7 (14 creatures) is trully scare,. IT'S A LOT OF DAMAGE and his concentration is trully hard to break!!!!

It's average 91 damagge per turn (If all hits) + Sorcerer damage.

Magic Missale can also be a reliable force damage.

-Anticaster: Subtle Counterspell can trully counters the spellcasters easily.


Stealth Casting: Yes, With Trance of Order + 13 Stealth check + Magical Guidance + Extended Invisibility +Extended Nondetect(Blocks see invisible), you are a really good and realiable stealth caracter.
You can buff himself stealthy, cast subtle animate objects, subtle dispel and still remain hidden. It's really good.


Damage:
20~30 attack roll can be trully good and reliable with Booming Blade at melee, Upcasted Magic Missale It's scarely realible damage +his thematic summons' damage

Thematically: Their Animated Objects are knives decorated with the word "Order" and the Bigby Handy is a Mechanical Handy

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Animate Objects and Bigby Hand deals a lot of damage, control and It's thematically amazing.


Control: Upcasted Sleep and Wall of Force can trully be good at controlling creatures. It's insanely good.

Versatility: With 23 Spells known and metamagic, It's incredible versatile
 

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Hohige

Explorer
The main objective of this build is to be thematically perfect, fun, iconic, strong and useful for your friends.
 



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“Hohige” is a notorious troll commonly known as “The Sorcerer King” on the Giant in the Playground (GitP) forums. He has been banned multiple times and makes multiple accounts in attempts to bypass bans. He may have been permanently banned through extreme measures by the moderators of that site. It is possible that he may be severely mentally unstable as he obsessively and abusively posts about a very particular subject (character builds based in one single class in a specific table top roleplaying game). At the same time, he has a poor understanding of the rules of the game he seems to obsess over so much. Beyond his obnoxious posting of Sorcerer builds, he can be identified by his forum behavior and his distinct use of the English language . It is advised by the moderators and common users of the GitP community that this user is immediately reported and not engaged with.
 

Hohige

Explorer
Looks cool, though I think you kind of buried the lede of it being a Sorcerer with 8 Charisma who nevertheless is probably pretty cool by avoiding most spellcasting stat based spells, which is actually a fairly interesting exercise.
Yes, there are countless powerful spells that do not depend on stats.
It is very versatile, powerful and iconic.
If the idea is to be iconic, a sorcerer with 8 Cha is very "Iconic"
 


Hohige

Explorer
A cool idea is to use your own HUGE animate object to fly like a flying mount and around it, there are still 6 flying knives. Well, it would be a lot of fun. Or 4 Large Flying Objects to your party as flying mounts.
It's fun.
 

I like the idea of trying to make a low-Cha sorcerer viable. It's always bugged me how all sorcerers (and especially warlocks) have to be so personable and charismatic to be any good at spellcasting. This does make the limitations of the approach stand out though - the D&D spell list and action economy is just not built for this sort of thing.

Doubling down on the mechanical theme with a warforged sorcerer is a cool idea. Having your mechanical guy polymorph into apes and t-rexes is a fair bit less thematic though - the exemplar of Mechanus turning into a primitive drooling monster as a primary combat tactic? That's no for me. Animate objects is less powerful, but more interesting in context.

In-game - not sure how it'd go. You've got polymorph, animate objects, bigby's hand, invisibility, greater invisibility, wall of force, magic weapon, and fly all competing for your Concentration slot. You've got shield, absorb elements, counterspell, and bastion of law (surely a low priority, it's useful but horrifyingly expensive in terms of sorcery points for what it does) all competing for your reaction. And while you've got a solid selection of non-concentration buff spells, getting them all cast is going to take multiple rounds and by then the combat is well under way, and/or you've burnt a lot of sorcery points casting everything subtly to stay hidden (which fire shield will make impossible, and only works if you're lucky enough to be able to choose when the combat starts), and by the time you're ready to go, a lot of the shorter-duration spells are half way to expiring anyway.

Damage output is an issue too. Animate objects, bigby's hand, and polymorph are obvious dispel targets (animate objects and bigby's hand especially, since the spell effect is going to be a long way away from you and anyone dispelling them will likely be out of counterspell range), and other than those, you're short of options. Magic missile's damage output is laughable at this level, fire shield only works if someone's attacking you melee, and a single attack with booming blade isn't going to frighten any melee combatants you'll meet at 14th level. The lack of instantanous damage spells that don't rely on your casting stat makes it hard, unfortunately. I like 5e, but it's not at all friendly to PCs who try to play against type, stat-wise.

If I was playing this in a real campaign i'd try to talk my DM into letting me have Summon Construct for sheer thematic value, though this is yet another concentration spell, which is the last thing you need, and sadly it's cha-dependant. And jeez, in a real campaign, a high-level spellcaster without Detect Magic or ANY capability to locate invisible enemies is going to have a tough time.

And how does this guy live long enough to get to 14th level anyway? Low-level spellcasters are very reliant on cantrips for damage output, which either has this guy using a Cha-dependent cantrip with an ability penalty, or running into combat with booming blade and hoping his 2-3 daily castings of Shield can keep him alive...

Edit: clockwork soul sorcerer already gets Summon Construct. It's still a pretty bad spell unless you have a solid casting stat though...
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
“Hohige” is a notorious troll ....
Mod Note:
If you have issues with a user, or real evidence of wrongdoing, you take it to moderators, not smear people in public. Is that clear? If it is not, please contact one of the moderators to discuss it.

And, @Hohige - you've chosen to ignore moderators several times in the past - do not repeat that performance here. Treat folks with respect.

That is all.
 

And how does this guy live long enough to get to 14th level anyway? Low-level spellcasters are very reliant on cantrips for damage output, which either has this guy using a Cha-dependent cantrip with an ability penalty, or running into combat with booming blade and hoping his 2-3 daily castings of Shield can keep him alive...

Well I suppose the classic Sorcerer solution from previous editions would be to sling a crossbow and just not be terribly useful at low levels.
 

nogray

Adventurer
But here, I will bring you a totally themed, fun and totally unexpected build. Yes, totally metallic. A Warforged Clockwork, being thematically perfect, fun, versatile and very powerful.

The objective here is to have fun with iconic characters.
Good objective. Always a good idea to aim towards having fun. With that in mind, I hope you don't mind some (hopefully constructive and/or useful) feedback.
Name: Ustur Stukov
Class: Sorcerer (Clockwork Soul)
Race: Warforged
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Background: Criminal Spy
Level: 14
I don't have a problem, per se, with Lawful Evil, though I do think a Mechanus-based character would more likely be Lawful Neutral, instead. Of course, a character is not limited to its inspiration. Still, the Lawful Evil makes me think more Devil than Modron/PC Inevitable, more evil lawyer than Judge Dredd.

If the character is playing pure Eberron, the name feels off from the normal ones given for Warforged. That's no big deal, of course. Feeding into both of those (Judge Dredd and/or Inevitables as inspirations), the name "Gavel" could be cool.
Stats
STR 8 CON 16 DEX 18 WIS 16 INT 8 CHA 8
AC: 16 Extended Mage Armor + 1 Warforged + Shield (If applies): Maximum 22
HP : 142 + 15 Extended level 4 Aid + 20 Extended Armor of Agathys + 22 (Bastion of Law feature) = 200 HP
Feats: Skill Expert (Stealth, +1 COn), Resilient (Wisdow, +1 Wis), Tough
How did the Dex hit 18? Assuming point buy and Tasha's flexible scores, I could only get 17. (But then, I got a 16 Con without putting the Skill Expert attribute point into Con, so maybe that's just a typo? That must be it. The Skill Expert --> Dex fixes it.) With the Dex sorted, wouldn't the AC be 18 (13 Mage Armor + 4 Dex + 1 Warforged) while Mage Armor was active? Either way, it certainly is an interesting stat array.

To be honest, I am a bit disappointed to see the Stealth bit come back up, but that seems a favorite tactic of yours, and I certainly can't fault you for it, given its potential effectiveness. It's not strongly aligned with the mechanical/Mechanus theme, but it doesn't exactly fight against it. Dropping it could lead to some interesting tweaks, though. Party composition might be a deciding factor, here.
Saving Throws: +9 Con +8 Wis + 4 CHA.
It automatically pass all Wis and con Saving Throw with Trance of Order

Metamagic: Quicken, Extended, Subtle

Attack roll: With Trance of Order + Magic Weapon upcasted to level 6, It has minimum 20~30 attack rolls. Casting with Booming Blade + Seeking spell, It's a reliable attack roll. You certainly hits.
At the moment, you don't have Seeking Spell. (Or at least it's not listed.) Even without it, the character is quite a reliable hitter during its Trance (to the point that it should almost never need Seeking Spell). If the Stealth tactic were dropped, the Sorcerer could swap the subtle for seeking (given the SP cost, I'm not sure that's a good swap) or for Empower or Distant (too many fun options for Sorcerer Metamagics), and that could also free up that ASI/Feat for something else and swap out a couple of spells. I don't know for what, precisely; just thinking.
Cantrips: Known; Mage Hand, Booming Blade, Minor Illusion, Bladeward, Mold Earth

Spell known:

1 - Armor of Agathys, Absorb Elements, Mage Armor, Shield, Magic Missale, Sleep
2 - Aid Spell, Magic Weapon, Invisibility, Mirror Image
3 - Counterspell, Dispel, NonDetection, Fly, Blink
4 - Dimention Door, Polymorph, Greater Invibility, FireShield
5 - Animate Objects, Wall of Force, Bigby Handy
6 -
7 - Etherealness
Don't know how I feel about the Dispel/Counterspell pair for this particular character. If the Sorcerer guesses incorrectly on the spell level, that Charisma penalty will definitely hurt it here. I'm not sure at the moment what else to choose, but the Sorcerer could still find frustration with that pair of spells combined with a low casting stat.

Recheck the build's 4th-level spells. There is only one Clockwork-eligible spell (Polymorph). The others are conjuration, illusion, and evocation and are not on the Clockwork Spells list. That's not a legal set of 4th-level spells, as it currently stands.

As one poster (@humble minion) pointed out, the build does have a lot of Concentration-demanding spells and quite a few Reactions, so thinning those might be something to consider. Not needed, but maybe useful.
Highlights:

- A true tanker: 200 HP (level 14), Mirror Image, Blink, Clockwork's Bastion of Law, Trance of Order, Greater Invisibility, Invisibility, Quickened Spells + Blade Ward, Absorb Elements. You really are an enviable tanker, perhaps the greatest tanker in the game. Advantage against him is useless (Trance of Order).
Without healer support, I was never confident in relying on Aid hit points. When it expires, those HP go away, and the Sorcerer could drop from that. It does have a lot of raw in-combat HP, though, as well as other defenses. It's a solid build in that regard. (Though to be fair, it is paying for them in spell slots and whatnot.)

I would hesitate to call this character the greatest tank in the game, though. The Sorcerer has a lot of hit points in combat, but the lower hit die for the Sorcerer means that over the course of a long adventuring day, it might have fewer effective hit points than a beefier-hit-die character: a Bear-Barbarian for instance. Also, some of those hit points (Armor of Agathys) come from a 2-hour-duration spell (if extended). That only works well if the characters have a site-based set of encounters. For more overland-style adventuring, it might not be so good. The hit points are also in competition with polymorphing (same spell slots). In fact, two of the Sorcerer's three base level-4 spells are used up in prep, leaving only one for polymorphing (plus its level 5-7 slots, but those are claimed for other uses.
Wis and Con saving throw spells and abilities doesn't work against you. Since there is a minimum 18 of saving throw (Trance of Order). The spells that can really threaten you are con or wis saving throw. Becoming a highly reliable tanker and "Immune" to control spells.
Undoubtedly quite superior in that regard.
You can survive a lot of Quicken Polymorph into a Giant Ape or T-rex, attack on same turn and still 19~29 concentration check rolls while transformed with Aid, Armor of Agathys, Shielf of Order, Blink, Mirror Image and +20~30 attack roll... It's incredible good to survive and damage.You can do this at any time, several times.
I don't know about "several" times; from above, it looks like the Sorcerer spends a lot of its initial resources in that prep phase. I'd need to see your breakdown on what goes into the setup, especially vs. what sort of encounters you would want to spend some portion or all of this on defeating. That is a lot of resources, by my count, but then again, I could be missing something. It's quite a bit of setup, too, in terms of the action cost to get all that off. The payoff is pretty sweet, though. It'd be a tough nut to crack.
- Anti-melee: Fireshield, Armor of Agathys + Clockwork Shield of Law + Resistence against weapon damage trully punishes melee creatures a lot.
Absent Quickening the Blade Ward (very cheap to do, I know), the resistance's action cost is really just taking the Sorcerer out of consideration for the combat. It's also not something the Sorcerer can do in its polymorphed forms, but you knew that already, I'm sure. Fire Shield being a 4th-level spell means that it is competing with that Armor of Agathys and Aid upcasts for slots (or the Polymorph cast).
-The best concentration caster in the game: With Trance of Order + 8 Con saving throw. You have at least 18 in concentration checks. Along with Absorb Elements, Blink, Mirror Image and mainly Clockwork's Shield of Law that absorb damage, breaking your concentration is almost impossible.

Bigby Hand, Extended Animate Objects level 7 (14 creatures) is trully scare,. IT'S A LOT OF DAMAGE and his concentration is trully hard to break!!!!
Reading over Bigby's Hand, I would drop it. Too many effects depend on your caster modifier. The only one that works really well for you is Interposing Hand (the Fist makes a spell attack, which is not so hot for this character; Forceful pushes zero feet; and Grasping's grapple check is decent, but the damage of the "crush" is bad -- 2d6-1 for this build). That Interposing Hand is holding things out of melee, which doesn't fit smoothly with this character's modus operandi. As this character, I doubt I would ever use my Concentration slot on this spell, so it might be seriously worth reconsidering and dropping. (Just my opinion, mind you.)
It's average 91 damagge per turn (If all hits) + Sorcerer damage.

Magic Missale can also be a reliable force damage.

-Anticaster: Subtle Counterspell can trully counters the spellcasters easily.
See above regarding Counterspell and the possibility of disappointment if the Sorcerer misses the guess on the incoming spell's level. The Sorcerer's trance won't help at all, here, as a misguessed Counterspell roll will always require a die roll of 15 or higher.
Stealth Casting: Yes, With Trance of Order + 13 Stealth check + Magical Guidance + Extended Invisibility +Extended Nondetect(Blocks see invisible), you are a really good and realiable stealth caracter.
You can buff himself stealthy, cast subtle animate objects, subtle dispel and still remain hidden. It's really good.
As I mentioned, this seems to be a favorite tactic of yours, but it's too DM- and environment-dependent for my tastes. And that's not to mention that the character as presented has no Darkvision, so is handicapped in many otherwise-stealth-friendly conditions. A less conditional tactic might be good to consider.

(Besides, it's usually the law-breakers that have to hide from the law-keepers and law-givers.) ;)
Damage:
20~30 attack roll can be trully good and reliable with Booming Blade at melee, Upcasted Magic Missale It's scarely realible damage +his thematic summons' damage

Thematically: Their Animated Objects are knives decorated with the word "Order" and the Bigby Handy is a Mechanical Handy

Animate Objects and Bigby Hand deals a lot of damage, control and It's thematically amazing.
Bigby's Hand, as mentioned, isn't too good for this character, I think. Add to that the fact that it competes with the Animate Objects or Polymorph for concentration, and . . . .
Control: Upcasted Sleep and Wall of Force can trully be good at controlling creatures. It's insanely good.

Versatility: With 23 Spells known and metamagic, It's incredible versatile
Quite decent control and versatility, yes.
A cool idea is to use your own HUGE animate object to fly like a flying mount and around it, there are still 6 flying knives. Well, it would be a lot of fun. Or 4 Large Flying Objects to your party as flying mounts.
It's fun.
While the image is entertaining, the limited application kills it for me. With a one-minute (two if extended) duration, that would be a short (in both range and duration) and expensive (in terms of character power during a day -- the Sorcerer's only fifth-, sixth-, or seventh-level spell slot) ride. (Yes, I know the 5th-level slot could be recovered by SP, but there is a lot of usage of those SP noted throughout the build.) Also, as a point of order, the sorcerer can't animate four large objects until it can use an 8th-level spell slot. A Huge object might just be able to carry a party of four, though, so it might be a moot point. Still, in an emergency of the right sort, it could be an excellent trick/tactic to have available.

Overall, it does sound like a fun (if off-the-beaten-path) build. I think it could use some tuning, though.
 

Galandris

Foggy Bottom Campaign Setting Fan
Good objective. Always a good idea to aim towards having fun. With that in mind, I hope you don't mind some (hopefully constructive and/or useful) feedback.

Yup. This is what gaming is for:!

I don't have a problem, per se, with Lawful Evil, though I do think a Mechanus-based character would more likely be Lawful Neutral, instead. Of course, a character is not limited to its inspiration. Still, the Lawful Evil makes me think more Devil than Modron/PC Inevitable, more evil lawyer than Judge Dredd.

This. One can deviate, especially as alignment are quite fluid, but I think it would be more iconic as a LN example.

If the character is playing pure Eberron, the name feels off from the normal ones given for Warforged. That's no big deal, of course. Feeding into both of those (Judge Dredd and/or Inevitables as inspirations), the name "Gavel" could be cool.

Yes... It would be. But as not every warforged adopted the custom of adopting name, I'm wondering if it wouldn't possible to have him keep his Cannith serial number. For someone who styles himself as a clockwork of a grander design, I feel it's appropriate to downplay even individuality. Though Gavel is definitely cool as a name.

To be honest, I am a bit disappointed to see the Stealth bit come back up, but that seems a favorite tactic of yours, and I certainly can't fault you for it, given its potential effectiveness. It's not strongly aligned with the mechanical/Mechanus theme, but it doesn't exactly fight against it. Dropping it could lead to some interesting tweaks, though. Party composition might be a deciding factor, here.

I'd drop it. In fact, I'd go more with Investigation as a skill proficiency to help locate the target. Most creature don't have quick moving capability and even with a casting penalty, Spell Sniper with Eldritch Blast allows for a mighty number of rounds of pounding before the offender is in melee-ish range, in a scenario of "track a quarry and arrest it, ala Inevitable/bounty hunter". It might be too much an investment for the theme, though. It'd meet the need of both Distant and Seeking metamagic.
 

Hohige

Explorer
I like the idea of trying to make a low-Cha sorcerer viable. It's always bugged me how all sorcerers (and especially warlocks) have to be so personable and charismatic to be any good at spellcasting. This does make the limitations of the approach stand out though - the D&D spell list and action economy is just not built for this sort of thing.

Doubling down on the mechanical theme with a warforged sorcerer is a cool idea. Having your mechanical guy polymorph into apes and t-rexes is a fair bit less thematic though - the exemplar of Mechanus turning into a primitive drooling monster as a primary combat tactic? That's no for me. Animate objects is less powerful, but more interesting in context.

In-game - not sure how it'd go. You've got polymorph, animate objects, bigby's hand, invisibility, greater invisibility, wall of force, magic weapon, and fly all competing for your Concentration slot. You've got shield, absorb elements, counterspell, and bastion of law (surely a low priority, it's useful but horrifyingly expensive in terms of sorcery points for what it does) all competing for your reaction. And while you've got a solid selection of non-concentration buff spells, getting them all cast is going to take multiple rounds and by then the combat is well under way, and/or you've burnt a lot of sorcery points casting everything subtly to stay hidden (which fire shield will make impossible, and only works if you're lucky enough to be able to choose when the combat starts), and by the time you're ready to go, a lot of the shorter-duration spells are half way to expiring anyway.

Damage output is an issue too. Animate objects, bigby's hand, and polymorph are obvious dispel targets (animate objects and bigby's hand especially, since the spell effect is going to be a long way away from you and anyone dispelling them will likely be out of counterspell range), and other than those, you're short of options. Magic missile's damage output is laughable at this level, fire shield only works if someone's attacking you melee, and a single attack with booming blade isn't going to frighten any melee combatants you'll meet at 14th level. The lack of instantanous damage spells that don't rely on your casting stat makes it hard, unfortunately. I like 5e, but it's not at all friendly to PCs who try to play against type, stat-wise.

If I was playing this in a real campaign i'd try to talk my DM into letting me have Summon Construct for sheer thematic value, though this is yet another concentration spell, which is the last thing you need, and sadly it's cha-dependant. And jeez, in a real campaign, a high-level spellcaster without Detect Magic or ANY capability to locate invisible enemies is going to have a tough time.

And how does this guy live long enough to get to 14th level anyway? Low-level spellcasters are very reliant on cantrips for damage output, which either has this guy using a Cha-dependent cantrip with an ability penalty, or running into combat with booming blade and hoping his 2-3 daily castings of Shield can keep him alive...

Edit: clockwork soul sorcerer already gets Summon Construct. It's still a pretty bad spell unless you have a solid casting stat though...

"Doubling down on the mechanical theme with a warforged sorcerer is a cool idea. Having your mechanical guy polymorph into apes and t-rexes is a fair bit less thematic though - the exemplar of Mechanus turning into a primitive drooling monster as a primary combat tactic? That's no for me. Animate objects is less powerful, but more interesting in context."

1613263496613.png

Machine of War - MetalGreymon's Polymorph

My Idea of T-Rex was Digimon 's MetalGreymon.
With the addition of Tasha's Custom Spells. Spells can have themes.
MetalGreymon buffed with attacks that don't miss is really cool.

Animate Objects are very versatile, they can fly and do a lot, a lot of damage and also fit perfectly.


But having a T-rex like MetalGreymon, that's just epic and fit perfectly with Mechanus. It's FUN!


"In-game - not sure how it'd go. You've got polymorph, animate objects, bigby's hand, invisibility, greater invisibility, wall of force, magic weapon, and fly all competing for your Concentration slot. You've got shield, absorb elements, counterspell, and bastion of law (surely a low priority, it's useful but horrifyingly expensive in terms of sorcery points for what it does) all competing for your reaction. And while you've got a solid selection of non-concentration buff spells, getting them all cast is going to take multiple rounds and by then the combat is well under way, and/or you've burnt a lot of sorcery points casting everything subtly to stay hidden (which fire shield will make impossible, and only works if you're lucky enough to be able to choose when the combat starts), and by the time you're ready to go, a lot of the shorter-duration spells are half way to expiring anyway."

Well, as your concentration spells are practically impossible to break, having versatility here makes a total difference, each situation may have different needs.

The same applies to Shield, Absorb Elements and Counterspell. Depends on the situation.
Is this about physical attack?
Shield
Attack of elemental effect?
Absorb Elements
Do you want to prevent an enemy spell that might hinder you?
Subtle Counterspell.
For example, if you counterspell Shield Spell, your Animated Objects do a lot, a lot of damage and your Magic Missale always hits.
Since War Machine has many known spells, they are welcome.

Shield of Order is not a Reaction.

"Damage output is an issue too. Animate objects, bigby's hand, and polymorph are obvious dispel targets (animate objects and bigby's hand especially, since the spell effect is going to be a long way away from you and anyone dispelling them will likely be out of counterspell range), and other than those, you're short of options. Magic missile's damage output is laughable at this level, fire shield only works if someone's attacking you melee, and a single attack with booming blade isn't going to frighten any melee combatants you'll meet at 14th level. The lack of instantanous damage spells that don't rely on your casting stat makes it hard, unfortunately. I like 5e, but it's not at all friendly to PCs who try to play against type, stat-wise."

As it is not focused on PvP here. Dispel is situational and counterspellable. Most monsters do not have dispel magic.

For example, Animate Objects, the target will need to dispel each knife. Yes, in that case he would need to dispel a knife per turn. Upcasted Animate Objects are particularly difficult to dispel and are many creatures.
Dispel it is practically impossible.

If the mage tries to use Shield, the Subtle Counterspell can really be a problem, it could be an Instantkill against a mage.
In this build, mages are not a threat.

The damage here is very high.

Well, Magic Missale, Double Booming Blade with a +3 weapon (Magic Weapon) can make 35 +14 if you move. It is not a high damage, but it is a reliable damage, it always hits. EVER.
If you see damage per turn vs. AC, that damage is really good.
Situational: If you have acess to Purple Worm Poison, It becomes a really amazing damage per turn that always hit.
Purple Worm Poison + Double Booming Blade is: 42+35+14 = 63 damage that always hits.
At this level, I don't find it difficult to have access to this type of poison.


"If I was playing this in a real campaign i'd try to talk my DM into letting me have Summon Construct for sheer thematic value, though this is yet another concentration spell, which is the last thing you need, and sadly it's cha-dependant. And jeez, in a real campaign, a high-level spellcaster without Detect Magic or ANY capability to locate invisible enemies is going to have a tough time."

Unfortunelly, It's cha based spell.....
But, in a real campaign I would call the UA version of Summon Construct.
But, It's situational and DM fiat.

Nondetection + Invisibility blocks See invisible spell. That is cool.

Edit: clockwork soul sorcerer already gets Summon Construct. It's still a pretty bad spell unless you have a solid casting stat though...

Unfortunelly, It's cha based.





Thanks for the feedback. I think this character exceeded my expectations ^^
 

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Hohige

Explorer
To be honest, I am a bit disappointed to see the Stealth bit come back up, but that seems a favorite tactic of yours, and I certainly can't fault you for it, given its potential effectiveness. It's not strongly aligned with the mechanical/Mechanus theme, but it doesn't exactly fight against it. Dropping it could lead to some interesting tweaks, though. Party composition might be a deciding factor, here.



Quite decent control and versatility, yes.

While the image is entertaining, the limited application kills it for me. With a one-minute (two if extended) duration, that would be a short (in both range and duration) and expensive (in terms of character power during a day -- the Sorcerer's only fifth-, sixth-, or seventh-level spell slot) ride. (Yes, I know the 5th-level slot could be recovered by SP, but there is a lot of usage of those SP noted throughout the build.) Also, as a point of order, the sorcerer can't animate four large objects until it can use an 8th-level spell slot. A Huge object might just be able to carry a party of four, though, so it might be a moot point. Still, in an emergency of the right sort, it could be an excellent trick/tactic to have available.

Overall, it does sound like a fun (if off-the-beaten-path) build. I think it could use some tuning, though.
A War Machine is designed to be versatile.
As his Specialized Design, high stealth check + Invisibility is thematic.
High Camoflage Warforged. Infiltration Machine is always fun.
Its useful to prepare his buffed before start a battle.

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Hohige

Explorer
"Doubling down on the mechanical theme with a warforged sorcerer is a cool idea. Having your mechanical guy polymorph into apes and t-rexes is a fair bit less thematic though - the exemplar of Mechanus turning into a primitive drooling monster as a primary combat tactic? That's no for me. Animate objects is less powerful, but more interesting in context."

View attachment 132706
Machine of War - MetalGreymon's Polymorph

My Idea of T-Rex was Digimon 's MetalGreymon.
With the addition of Tasha's Custom Spells. Spells can have themes.
MetalGreymon buffed with attacks that don't miss is really cool.

Animate Objects are very versatile, they can fly and do a lot, a lot of damage and also fit perfectly.


But having a T-rex like MetalGreymon, that's just epic and fit perfectly with Mechanus. It's FUN!


"In-game - not sure how it'd go. You've got polymorph, animate objects, bigby's hand, invisibility, greater invisibility, wall of force, magic weapon, and fly all competing for your Concentration slot. You've got shield, absorb elements, counterspell, and bastion of law (surely a low priority, it's useful but horrifyingly expensive in terms of sorcery points for what it does) all competing for your reaction. And while you've got a solid selection of non-concentration buff spells, getting them all cast is going to take multiple rounds and by then the combat is well under way, and/or you've burnt a lot of sorcery points casting everything subtly to stay hidden (which fire shield will make impossible, and only works if you're lucky enough to be able to choose when the combat starts), and by the time you're ready to go, a lot of the shorter-duration spells are half way to expiring anyway."

Well, as your concentration spells are practically impossible to break, having versatility here makes a total difference, each situation may have different needs.

The same applies to Shield, Absorb Elements and Counterspell. Depends on the situation.
Is this about physical attack?
Shield
Attack of elemental effect?
Absorb Elements
Do you want to prevent an enemy spell that might hinder you?
Subtle Counterspell.
For example, if you counterspell Shield Spell, your Animated Objects do a lot, a lot of damage and your Magic Missale always hits.
Since War Machine has many known spells, they are welcome.

Shield of Order is not a Reaction.

"Damage output is an issue too. Animate objects, bigby's hand, and polymorph are obvious dispel targets (animate objects and bigby's hand especially, since the spell effect is going to be a long way away from you and anyone dispelling them will likely be out of counterspell range), and other than those, you're short of options. Magic missile's damage output is laughable at this level, fire shield only works if someone's attacking you melee, and a single attack with booming blade isn't going to frighten any melee combatants you'll meet at 14th level. The lack of instantanous damage spells that don't rely on your casting stat makes it hard, unfortunately. I like 5e, but it's not at all friendly to PCs who try to play against type, stat-wise."

As it is not focused on PvP here. Dispel is situational and counterspellable. Most monsters do not have dispel magic.

For example, Animate Objects, the target will need to dispel each knife. Yes, in that case he would need to dispel a knife per turn. Upcasted Animate Objects are particularly difficult to dispel and are many creatures.
Dispel it is practically impossible.

If the mage tries to use Shield, the Subtle Counterspell can really be a problem, it could be an Instantkill against a mage.
In this build, mages are not a threat.

The damage here is very high.

Well, Magic Missale, Double Booming Blade with a +3 weapon (Magic Weapon) can make 35 +14 if you move. It is not a high damage, but it is a reliable damage, it always hits. EVER.
If you see damage per turn vs. AC, that damage is really good.
Situational: If you have acess to Purple Worm Poison, It becomes a really amazing damage per turn that always hit.
Purple Worm Poison + Double Booming Blade is: 42+35+14 = 63 damage that always hits.
At this level, I don't find it difficult to have access to this type of poison.


"If I was playing this in a real campaign i'd try to talk my DM into letting me have Summon Construct for sheer thematic value, though this is yet another concentration spell, which is the last thing you need, and sadly it's cha-dependant. And jeez, in a real campaign, a high-level spellcaster without Detect Magic or ANY capability to locate invisible enemies is going to have a tough time."

Unfortunelly, It's cha based spell.....
But, in a real campaign I would call the UA version of Summon Construct.
But, It's situational and DM fiat.

Nondetection + Invisibility blocks See invisible spell. That is cool.

Edit: clockwork soul sorcerer already gets Summon Construct. It's still a pretty bad spell unless you have a solid casting stat though...

Unfortunelly, It's cha based.





Thanks for the feedback. I think this character exceeded my expectations ^^
Now the War Machine can turn himself as bonus action (quicken) and still attack with minimum 21~31 attack roll.

Gishath, Sun's Avatar (beast CR 10) or Sky Leviathan with Metal thematic (Metalgreymon).
1613496335646.png


Multiattack.
Gishath makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its stomp or tail. It can't make both attacks against the same target.

Bite.
Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 39 (5d12 + 7) piercing damage. If the target is a Large or smaller creature, it must succeed on a DC 19 Dexterity saving throw or it is grappled (escape DC 19). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and Gishath can't bite another target.

Swallow.
Gishath makes one bite attack against a Large or smaller creature it is grappling. If the attack hits, that creature takes the bite's damage and is swallowed, and the grapple ends. While swallowed, the creature is blinded and restrained, it has total cover against attacks and other effects outside Gishath, and it takes 21 (6d6) acid damage at the start of each of Gishath's turns.

If Gishath takes 30 damage or more on a single turn from a creature inside it, it must succeed on a DC 18 Constitution saving throw at the end of that turn or regurgitate all swallowed creatures, which fall prone in a space within 10 feet of it. If Gishath dies, a swallowed creature is no longer restrained by it and can escape from the corpse by using 20 feet of movement, exiting prone.
Stomp.
Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 29 (5d8 + 7) bludgeoning damage, and the target must succeed on a DC 19 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.

Tail.
Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 25 (4d8 + 7) bludgeoning damage.




It's insanely good.

Swallow + Trance of Order is a death sentence. The minimum on con check is 18... The victim cant scape.
 

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Sorry if I'm missing something. But how does he learn Armor of Agathys? Isn't that a warlock only spell?
"Whenever you gain a sorcerer level, you can replace one spell you gained from this feature with another spell of the same level. The new spell must be an abjuration or a transmutation spell from the sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell list."

Clockwork Soul and Aberrant Mind both have a spell poaching feature. In this case, Clockwork Soul can poke around in the Warlock and Wizard spell list as long as they are abjuration or transmutation spells. Armor of Agathys is an abjuration. Of course, he can't actually get it until Level 2, which is the first level the poaching ability kicks in.
 


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