Warforged ECL 0???? Yeah right!!!!

[I'm A Banana]

Again, IMHO, the issue isn't that the warforged are "too powerful" per se.

It's just that their immunities make the game very binary.

And we definately have some ACTUAL EXPERIENCE to back up this claim.

I say again - I love the idea of warforged, and am really taken aback at how they're affecting the game in practice. And at the risk of getting into nerf-bat territory, I don't really get the immunity to energy drain - they're living beings now, yes? That's what makes them more than just constructs? That energy drain immunity worries me, especially for an undead-heavy campaign, but I don't want to house-rule it out now - I don't want the players to feel they got a bait-and-switch, and I don't want to go forming house rules after only a couple of play sessions. We'll talk about it next week and see if the other players do in fact feel the party is as lopsided as I do.

Ask them if maybe they wouldn't mind getting full healing in exchange for giving up some outright immunities and exchanging them with some +4 bonuses. They'll still be REALLY GOOD at handling the swimming ghoul, but the other two won't have to sit out the encounter (they might just have to retreat early).

 

[Sigdel]

Am I missing something here? Right now I am looking at the WF racial traits and, in my Eberron book, it says Unlike other constructs, war forged are subject to... abilty damahe, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy effects. Now if I am not mistaken that takes a lot of steam from the WF lv adj +1 crowd. And in fact makes WF... crappy.

 

[Tetsubo]

Am I missing something here? Right now I am looking at the WF racial traits and, in my Eberron book, it says Unlike other constructs, war forged are subject to... abilty damahe, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy effects. Now if I am not mistaken that takes a lot of steam from the WF lv adj +1 crowd. And in fact makes WF... crappy.

Exactly... you get a cookie...

 

[shilsen]

Again, IMHO, the issue isn't that the warforged are "too powerful" per se.

It's just that their immunities make the game very binary.

And we definately have some ACTUAL EXPERIENCE to back up this claim.

Right. Just like some people have posted actual experiences (admittedly without caps )with warforged in their campaigns which haven't made the game at all binary for them.

It's pretty much down to opinion and to DMing and playing style here.

 

[ThirdWizard]

*swoops in*

It's those darn construct cure spells that make them overpowered. We just got rid of those.

*swoops out*

 

[I'm A Banana]

Right. Just like some people have posted actual experiences (admittedly without caps )with warforged in their campaigns which haven't made the game at all binary for them.

It's pretty much down to opinion and to DMing and playing style here.

I mostly agree, this was just to make the point that it's not just "you know, in actual play they're not too bad! You shouldn't judge it until you've tried it, and then you will see!" because in some actual play they are too bad.

And I'd say it has less to do with DM/player style (though it has to do with that) and more to do with the campaign itself, but that's probably semantics.

 

[shilsen]

I mostly agree, this was just to make the point that it's not just "you know, in actual play they're not too bad! You shouldn't judge it until you've tried it, and then you will see!" because in some actual play they are too bad.

And I'd say it has less to do with DM/player style (though it has to do with that) and more to do with the campaign itself, but that's probably semantics.

Ah, but what do you mean when you say 'semantics'?

 

[Victim]

Life-Drinker
This +1 greataxe is favored by undead and constructs, who do not suffer its drawback. A life-drinker bestows two negative levels on its target whenever it deals damage, just as if its target had been struck by an undead creature. One day after being struck, subjects must make a DC 16 Fortitude save for each negative level or lose a character level.

Each time a life-drinker deals damage to a foe, it also bestows one negative level on the wielder. Any negative level gained by the wielder in this fashion lasts for 1 hour.

Strong necromancy; CL 13th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, enervation; Price 40,320 gp; Cost 20,320 gp + 1,600 XP.

Yay for no downside!

 

[Ahrimon]

I don't see how you can say warforged don't fit into a jungle/undead/ocean game. Is the sole focus of the game that one thing the warforged are immune to? Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't want to play in any game, jungle or otherwise where the biggest worry is "am I going to die from malaria because the misquito bit me?" Or where I have to fear being killed by every bee sting. That just doesn't sound like a fun time. Heroic/gritty or whatever, being killed because a scorpion crawled into your bedroll is just anti-climatic.

On the undead, is level drain your sole threat to the PCs? "Wait, bob is imune to level drain. Send him in. <round or two later> uh-oh. They just ripped bob apart. Guess we'll have to join in."

Water: In shallow water, it's an advantage. PC falls into a lake, they may drown. Warforged PC falls in, the take a day or so walking back to shore. But in an ocean once that warfarged fails his swim check and sinks, just like any other character he's dead. He'd be crushed by the pressure. Sure they don't have to worry about drowning the in the bathtub, but if any of my characters went out that way I'd be looking for a new game.

Basing an entire campaign around one specific threat is bad GM'ng IMO. A game or two, ok. But you just have to adapt. Bob may not have to worry about every little but they come across, but those big bugs, pigmys, pit traps, monsters, cultists... are still a threat. The warforged my not die from mummy rot, but when he's all alone in the abandoned crypt, he's going to be pretty scared.

Warforged have feelings, have a soul and feel fear as much as anyone else. They just don't have to fear some of the little things. And yes, those can be hyped up, but if your playing with warforged, you'll just have to hyp up some other little detail to bring out the fear in addition.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Am I missing something here? Right now I am looking at the WF racial traits and, in my Eberron book, it says Unlike other constructs, war forged are subject to... abilty damahe, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy effects. Now if I am not mistaken that takes a lot of steam from the WF lv adj +1 crowd. And in fact makes WF... crappy.

Do the proponents of the "warforged are broken" side of the argument have anything to say about this? Seems to me this little post was kinda glossed over...