Warhammer d20

[drakhe]

Err... yes and no. You're ignoring lots of specific things (prestige classes?) like witch elves, lion warriors, cold one knights, etc.

I wouldn't say that dark elves and high elves are any more alike in Warhammer than high elves and drow are in D&D.
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Actualy, I guess you could say that WFRP has PrC's exclusively. Even the basic carreers in WFRP feel more like a PrC then a class.

You don't have classes per se in WFRP and you don't have levels.
A character chooses a succesion of carreers, each carreer defining advances in stats and skills. XP buys you these advances and once all possible advances of one carreer are aquired, you choose a new carreer. The one thing I don't realy like in this system is that (with exception to cleric/wizard carreers) you almost have to choose a different to keep evolving. Say you're a judicial champion and have bought all advances for that carreer. If you want to continue as a judicial champion, your character stagnates as there is no way to have it evolve beyond the advances described in the carreer.

So yes, carreers definatly feel more like PrC's but relatively short ones. And since there are no classes per se there is no multiclassing as such.

On the other hand, the progression of carreers provides for some excelent roleplaying oportunities!

 

[drakhe]

The only reason I can see to convert WHFRP to d20 is because folks don't want to learn the WH rules. I suppose that's as good a reason as any, but -IMHO- the game isn't that hard to learn and its rules work pretty well.

And now thanx to D20 we can do both things...

I mean: with all the D20 stuff coming out (and lets generalize this to all generic systems) you can play several types of settings with the same rules.

But there is as much fun to be had in playing a similar setting with a different system.

I for one like to play in different systems because it provides me inspiration for the DnD3E game I DM. in a manner of speaking : seeing a certain scene through the eyes of a different system shows me ways of doing things I might never have thought of if I had remained strictly within the existing framework of DnD3E.

 

[drakhe]

Re: If it's what you really want..

Things you might try to make a WHFRP-ish d20:

• Only PC races are human, elf, dwarf, halfling
• Give everyone a base d6 hit die (+1 for dwarves, -1 for halflings, minimum of 1) no CON Mod
• Gain 1 hp (yes POINT) per level.
• 5 alignments: Law, Good, Neutral, Evil & Chaos
• Spells are gained as individual skills.
• Spellcasters are prestige classes
• Mana is based off of WIS or INT score (divine v. arcane)
• Use WH spell list, the 3e spells are WAY too powerful
• Severely limit magical healing
• modify weapon damage to fit reduced hp levels,etc.
• Armor = damage absorption
• armor (even plate) only absorbs 1 or 2 pts of damage
• use CoC-style insanity rules for certain monster effects and for spellcaster progression as necromancer or demonologist (don't forget diseases! )

Are you still playing d20 at this point? It sure ain't D&D 3e.

YMMV, IMHO, etc.

And don't forget the interesting skills and features (what about sex appeal or blather ) )

Two of the neatest things in the WFRP rules: insanity and COOL!

 

[drakhe]

Have to agree, making a setting as grim and dangerous as WFRP is not that difficult with d20, a little adjustment and you have it.

Everquest is a mana based system.

And actualy, I don't realy think you'd have to do it through rules adaptations. A decent GM/DM/... can capture a setting whatever rules he's enforcing. Play the setting and use whatever system you want. The only thing in the rules I can see having some impact on a campaign level is the level/class system as opposed to for instance a classless system or the carreer system in WFRP. But that influance is relatively small and definatly on a higher level.

 

[drakhe]

I really haven't found WHFRP to be all that deadly compared to low level D&D play. With the Wound score/system, its possible to fight on after many hits. Plus, increases in Toughness (esp wrt dwarves) can make your character all but immune to normal weapons.

Start at 0th level, don't get max hit point at first level, and substantially lower XP awards. This will get you 90% of the way there.

To handle the availability of magic just move the spells/day chart up a few levels (so a third level wizards gets the spells from the first level chart).

The only tough spot is that in WFRP, arcane spell casters can cast healing spells. Your call ...


Aaron

But then again there's that famous crit table. You're not worth you're salt anymore if all of a sudden your minus one leg or blind or ...... D20 criticals will only kill you faster (or allow you to kill otherwise virtualy unkillable monsters) a WFRP crit (even off one miserable hit) can cripple your character severly. Question is wether a player want's to play such a crippled character. I now a couple of DM's who will ask a player to roll up a new character

 

[hellbender]

Play 3E and WFRPG, tried to convert, but not really a good idea. WFRPG is a fully functioning system, and a great break from d20, the rules are easy to learn and I wouldn't play with a group unwilling to learn a new system, if I did, we never would have tried Deadlands, Palladium...or 3e (with this group, I started on 1e waaaaaay back).

One thing mentioned that totally takes away from Warhammer is ditching alignments. If you don't use alignment, you can never play Warhammer the right way. Chaos and Law war for supremacy for crying out loud. Without these elements, you just have people running about in funny costumes. Without Chaos there are no beastmen, skaven, chaos knights, etc.

Nothing wrong with playing two different systems. For the group and myself, Warhammer is just fine the way it is, and doesn't need converting.

hellbender

 

[mmadsen]

What elements of the Warhammer game mechanics are important to the flavor of the game world? From what I can pick up, it's important that magic is rare and that heroes aren't immune to lesser fighters. What else?

 

[kengar]

What elements of the Warhammer game mechanics are important to the flavor of the game world? From what I can pick up, it's important that magic is rare and that heroes aren't immune to lesser fighters. What else?

Magic isn't all that rare, it's just not so easy to learn. There are Wizards and Priests but they don't have as many spells. They also learn spells individually (like a Feat or Skill). Some casters (i.e. Demonologists & Necromancers) are more CoC-style in that their practice eventually consumes them. To be fair, I think d20 could handle the actual spellcasting aspect of the game. CoC is darned close as it is. The career-paths are a different matter, but you could argue either way on how "integral" they to the setting.

Armor is a big difference, too. I haven't read the rules about "Defense" values that some folks have referred to (WoT?), but DnD-style AC wouldn't work. Armor soaks up damage (& not a lot!), it doesn't prevent a hit.

The main defense against an attack is a parry (or a shield) and that uses up an attack slot. If you only have one attack per round (like a lot of beginning characters), you often make the choice between attacking that skaven or trying to block his blow. Even if you have a higher Initiative, you might be worried about using up that "slot" if he survives and swings at you. Also, the parry only blocks so much damage, it doesn't necessarily prevent the blow entirely. All this -to me- makes combat a very different experience.

In all honesty, you could probably go a long way towards adapting the Warhammer setting -and even some of the feel of the game mechanics- to d20. One of the main "selling points" of d20 is it can be used for many kinds of games. I just think that the WHFRP rules are designed to emphasize certain aspects of play and most of the d20 I've seen emphasizes others. The WH rules are just very well suited to the Old World setting and also just plain work. They aren't hard to learn and they are fairly consistent.

 

[mmadsen]

Magic isn't all that rare, it's just not so easy to learn. There are Wizards and Priests but they don't have as many spells.

So there's less magic than in D&D, right?

Some casters (i.e. Demonologists & Necromancers) are more CoC-style in that their practice eventually consumes them. To be fair, I think d20 could handle the actual spellcasting aspect of the game. CoC is darned close as it is.

Someone needs to give this a try.

The career-paths are a different matter, but you could argue either way on how "integral" they to the setting.

They seem like they lend a lot of flavor, but maybe the amusing titles are more interesting that any mechanics we'd have to port over.

Armor is a big difference, too.

Right, but is that important to the flavor of the game world?

 

[Hand of Evil]

So there's less magic than in D&D, right?

Someone needs to give this a try.

They seem like they lend a lot of flavor, but maybe the amusing titles are more interesting that any mechanics we'd have to port over.

Right, but is that important to the flavor of the game world?

I would not say there is less magic than D&D just a different form, Wizards are apprentices and then wizards. Adding schemes and levels. In the Realm of Sorcery, you have 12 types, hedge, rune, skaven, battle, so on. The reason wizards are not common is the world view, in many places they are not trusted and sometime even hunted by witch hunters!

Overall I think the titles of careers add more to the game than anything else. They tell a story, what a person did, what he has become.