Level Up (A5E) Warlock Archetype Curse scaling & Herald multiclassing

[W'rkncacnter]

Do you mean that the spell points can be used as exertion?
"You can convert spell points into exertion at the start of your turn"?

no, im specifically referring to the values, as i said. it'd still just be exertion.

 

[Anonymous3]

Right. So Herald now gets an exertion pool that follows the Warlock spell point values.
They then use said exertion pool to either cast a spell or use it for a maneuver.

I like this and will suggest it to the table see what the response is like.

 

[Anonymous3]

Herald exertion pool/points recovered on short or long rest?

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Herald exertion pool/points recovered on short or long rest?

it'd have to be short, otherwise it's a unique exertion pool and thus an inconsistency that has to be accounted for again.

 

[Tessarael]

Herald exertion pool/points recovered on short or long rest?

It should be a short rest, if you don't want Herald/Fighter-dip issues. I am wondering if it makes sense to have the efficiency of conversion from exertion to spell slots vary with Herald level.

Something like this initially:

• Instead of spell slots, Herald gets 2x proficiency bonus exertion points (4), which are recovered on a short rest. This is the same as others with combat maneuvers and exertion points. This avoids problems with the Fighter level dip.
• 4 exertion points = one 1st level spell slot. So, one 1st level spell slot per short rest, 3/day in total for Herald levels 1-4.

At Herald level 5, they have proficiency bonus +3, so 6 exertion points per short rest. At this point, they need to more efficiently convert exertion points to spell slots, as they should be getting 4x 1st + 2x 2nd per long rest. So, maybe the following:

• At Herald level 5, they become more efficient at spell casting, and gain access to 2nd level spells.
• They get 2x proficiency bonus exertion points (6), which are recovered on a short rest.
• 4 exertion points = one 2nd level spell slot, and 2 exertion = one 1st level spell slot.
• Per short rest, they can cast 1x 1st + 1x 2nd, or 3x 1st.
• That's from 3x 2nd + 3x 1st per long rest, to 9x 1st per long rest.

At Herald level 9, they have have proficiency bonus +4, so 8 exertion points per short rest. At this point, they need to even more efficiently convert exertion points to spell slots, as they should be getting 4x 1st + 3x 2nd + 2x 3rd per long rest. So, maybe the following:

• At Herald level 9, they become even more efficient at spell casting, and gain access to 3nd level spells.
• They get 2x proficiency bonus exertion points (8), which are recovered on a short rest.
• 5 exertion points = one 3rd level spell slot, 3 exertion points = 2nd level spell slot, and 2 exertion = 1st level slot.
• Per short rest, they can cast 1x 3rd + 1x 2nd, 2x 2nd + 1x 1st, or 4x 1st.
• That's from 3x 3rd + 3x 1st, 6x 2nd + 3x 1st, to 12x 1st per long rest.

At Herald level 13, they have have proficiency bonus +5, so 10 exertion points per short rest. They should be getting 4x 1st + 3x 2nd + 3x 3rd + 1x 4th per long rest. Now the exertion to spell slot conversion breaks down, if you want to limit them to only one 4th level spell slot per long rest. Either you need to stop further conversion to higher level spell slots, or permit a 4th level spell slot per short rest - I will go with the latter. So along these lines:

• At Herald level 13, they gain access to 4th level spells.
• They get 2x proficiency bonus exertion points (10), which are recovered on a short rest.
• 6 exertion = one 4th level spell slot, 5 exertion = 3rd level slot, 3 exertion = 2nd level slot, 2 exertion = 1st level slot.
• Per short rest, they can cast 1x 4th + 2x 1st, 2x 3rd, 2x 2nd + 2x 1st, or 5x 1st.
• That's from 3x 4th + 6x 1st, 6x 3rd, 6x 2nd + 6x 1st, or 15x 1st per long rest.

And similarly at level 17+. Once they are casting more efficiently, I am using the Warlock spell point costs for spell slot levels.

There's no easy way to make it fully consistent with the long rest recovery number of spell slots, if they're getting the exertion on a short rest and can convert that to spell slots. I think that it should be fairly balanced. The high number of 1st level spell slots available should not be too much of an issue, as the impact of 1st level slots is not so much.

 

[Distracted DM]

My main point with the suggestion to switch Herald over to a purely exertion point mechanic was to avoid them getting a bunch of exertion points with a level dip into Fighter. If Herald still gets spell slots, it doesn't solve that problem.

Giving Heralds a pool of exertion = PB (rather than others PB*2) can help avoid the optimal-fighter-dip, I think. It won't help their maneuver progression ofc but I try to make it clear to players that the herald isn't a maneuver-master. That doesn't really sell them though, they still want to maneuver it up :'D

 

[Anonymous3]

Giving Heralds a pool of exertion = PB (rather than others PB*2) can help avoid the optimal-fighter-dip, I think. It won't help their maneuver progression ofc but I try to make it clear to players that the herald isn't a maneuver-master. That doesn't really sell them though, they still want to maneuver it up :'D

I would appreciate it if you could expand on this. For instance, is this the change you'd make keeping all Herald features the same? Is this separate from the Warlock spellpoint/exertion progression? I think it is but I just want to be sure.

 

[Anonymous3]

I am wondering if it makes sense to have the efficiency of conversion from exertion to spell slots vary with Herald level.

I think this is what the Fighter's Reserves(1) feature is supposed to do - become more efficient or dig deeper.
Perhaps you could implement a similar feature for Herald.

 

[Anonymous3]

Sorry if I'm not getting this. The exertion point values (like Warlock spell points) seems the easiest to implement but I don't see how that solves the Fighter dip problem of stacking exertion pools.

Giving Heralds a pool of exertion = PB (rather than others PB*2) can help avoid the optimal-fighter-dip, I think.

I don't see how this avoids the Fighter dip issue either. Whether we start as Fighter or Herald we will have a two separate ways of getting exertion and thus have two separate pools.

This does not happen when the wording is the same, eg., Fighter/Berserker. What am I missing?

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Giving Heralds a pool of exertion = PB (rather than others PB*2) can help avoid the optimal-fighter-dip, I think. It won't help their maneuver progression ofc but I try to make it clear to players that the herald isn't a maneuver-master. That doesn't really sell them though, they still want to maneuver it up :'D

unfortunately this creates the same problem as the exertion being on a long rest in that now you have to create a multiclassing exemption again so we're back at square one.

that said, pb*3 is much less of a problem then converting the spell slots you'd have into exertion to be regained on a long rest + pb*2, and both are less of a problem then the current method since perfect assault would wipe both pools out, thus negating that specific exploit.

I think this is what the Fighter's Reserves(1) feature is supposed to do - become more efficient or dig deeper.
Perhaps you could implement a similar feature for Herald.

...why did the site say this quoted my post...?