D&D 5E Warlock (Hexblade Chain Pact) 4 / Rogue 1

[TwoSix]

Level 1 I the absolute best time to take a 1 level dip because it is the most efficient least impact on your character for a permanent 2 skills. You have to realize this levels don't progress at the same speed, so taking even a 1 level dip in rogue delays your progress a lot more after level 4. You might go though one session getting your from level 4 - level 5 for the Actor feet (and still get the 2 skills), or if you do it your way you permanently loose 2 skills so that you can change class after 4 and have feat you were going to get anyway in likely one session.... That's the cost of lose of patience I guess. Its your decision but I would not take a permanent lose for a 1 session delay...

He'd actually only be down 1 skill; multiclassing into rogue gives a bonus skill proficiency and thieves tools proficiency.

 

[ClaytonCross]

He'd actually only be down 1 skill; multiclassing into rogue gives a bonus skill proficiency and thieves tools proficiency.

True I forgot he still go thieves tools and was counting that against it. Still a permeant lose of a relevant skill to get an ASI one level faster at the level 4-5 range does not seem worth the trade. If we were talking about the level 12 or level 16 ASI, it becomes an issue but with the plan to go full rogue after level 5 with 4 in warlock it will not even effect the level 8 ASI.... so your losing a skill for a very minor weight for your level 4 feat? Due to exponential leveling time , if the character makes it to level 12 he will have spent only small fraction of its time waiting for a feat. If there was not a skill to fill the slot that was relevant to the build sure, but also add to that the warlock class as a excludes getting Performance and Persuasion which are at the heart of the design description, and the multi-class rogue lets you get one, but starting with rogue lets you get both.

That said to each his own. Its not a good trade for the 4lvl ASI/Feat to be one level faster but its not going to break the game.

I imagine your going to want to take performance to double down on the actor feet but then after convincing them your some one else your hopping to persuade them to do things without persuasion skill relying on a high base charisma? Although, you could take persuasion and ask your GM to only ever use Deception for checks when trying to pass yourself off as a different person. Its just situational. I generally, use Deception if its a specific someone the target knows and performance if its just to act like a generic "guard". If your GM doesn't run it that way it might not really matter.

 

[FrogReaver]

Level 1 I the absolute best time to take a 1 level dip because it is the most efficient least impact on your character for a permanent 2 skills. You have to realize this levels don't progress at the same speed, so taking even a 1 level dip in rogue delays your progress a lot more after level 4. You might go though one session getting your from level 4 - level 5 for the Actor feet (and still get the 2 skills), or if you do it your way you permanently loose 2 skills so that you can change class after 4 and have feat you were going to get anyway in likely one session.... That's the cost of lose of patience I guess. Its your decision but I would not take a permanent lose for a 1 session delay...

I take great issue with your statement that my choices are from lack of patience instead of careful consideration and calculation.

If we started at level 3 I would estimate about 2 sessions to level 4 and another 2 sessions to level 5. 4 sessions total for us. We might get lucky and cut that down to 3 sessions but 2 is doubtful.

Our campaigns usually fizzle out or we make new characters or something before we reach level 8. So I'd say a good 1/2 to 1/3 of my game will be at those levels. Perhaps your game is different and you can bank on staying with the same character in the same campaign over the long haul. I don't have that luxury.

 

[ClaytonCross]

I take great issue with your statement that my choices are from lack of patience instead of careful consideration and calculation.

If we started at level 3 I would estimate about 2 sessions to level 4 and another 2 sessions to level 5. 4 sessions total for us. We might get lucky and cut that down to 3 sessions but 2 is doubtful.

Our campaigns usually fizzle out or we make new characters or something before we reach level 8. So I'd say a good 1/2 to 1/3 of my game will be at those levels. Perhaps your game is different and you can bank on staying with the same character in the same campaign over the long haul. I don't have that luxury.

Your not reading it as I intended, "taking great issue" by placing inference that I did not place. I am just saying your not willing to wait so your taking a permanent lose, because of it. That is not a personal attack. Its just a true statement on what your doing. That does not indicate that your not doing it for a reason. As I said, "Its your decision". I also pointed out in my reply to TwoSix that depending on your GM's play style it might not matter. To my point, your saying you would be shorting a 4 session delay but really you would not have it until level 4 so even by your description, in bold above, your only talking about 2 sessions at most. If you cut it down on one of those 2 sessions between 4 & 5 you will only make a one session difference, just like I said. So in your games you might lose a permanent skill for a 1-2 session delay (by your terms). If your running 4 sessions to level 4 then it will likely be at least 8-9 more to level 8 so your talking not getting your feat when you could have it by 1/12 or 8% of your play time giver or take. That said if you have fast changing campaigns as you describe no need to stress it you will not be effected too long.

 

[FrogReaver]

Your not reading it as I intended, "taking great issue" by placing inference that I did not place. I am just saying your not willing to wait so your taking a permanent lose, because of it. That is not a personal attack. Its just a true statement on what your doing. That does not indicate that your not doing it for a reason. As I said, "Its your decision". I also pointed out in my reply to TwoSix that depending on your GM's play style it might not matter. To my point, your saying you would be shorting a 4 session delay but really you would not have it until level 4 so even by your description, in bold above, your only talking about 2 sessions at most. If you cut it down on one of those 2 sessions between 4 & 5 you will only make a one session difference, just like I said. So in your games you might lose a permanent skill for a 1-2 session delay (by your terms). If your running 4 sessions to level 4 then it will likely be at least 8-9 more to level 8 so your talking not getting your feat when you could have it by 1/12 or 8% of your play time giver or take. That said if you have fast changing campaigns as you describe no need to stress it you will not be effected too long.

Let's get back to an error I see you keep repeating. It's not just about how many "X" total levels behind a multiclass dip puts you but it's also about how many "Y" levels you remain those "X" levels behind. This is a very important nuance.

See if I take rogue first as you describe eventually we will end up in the same place as if I took warlock first and rogue last. You are also right to point out that rogues get +1 skill prof and lockpicking prof. Both useful abilities.

However, it's not just about where you end up but also about the journey there. The 3rd level of warlock has some abilities that are very important to my class concept. The 4th level of warlock nets me the actor feat which was also a big part of my class concept. In other words, I am being delayed over a two level span features that are very important to my class concept. So it's not 1-2 sessions as you keep trying to state (which is the amount of sessions it takes you to catch up once I stop progressing in warlock). It's 3-4 sessions that I am delayed important features for my class concept.

3-4 sessions is a good chunk of the total time I would play this character. Whether that's 25% or 33% or 50% of the time it doesn't really matter.

 

[ClaytonCross]

Let's get back to an error I see you keep repeating. It's not just about how many "X" total levels behind a multiclass dip puts you but it's also about how many "Y" levels you remain those "X" levels behind. This is a very important nuance.

See if I take rogue first as you describe eventually we will end up in the same place as if I took warlock first and rogue last. You are also right to point out that rogues get +1 skill prof and lockpicking prof. Both useful abilities.

However, it's not just about where you end up but also about the journey there. The 3rd level of warlock has some abilities that are very important to my class concept. The 4th level of warlock nets me the actor feat which was also a big part of my class concept. In other words, I am being delayed over a two level span features that are very important to my class concept. So it's not 1-2 sessions as you keep trying to state (which is the amount of sessions it takes you to catch up once I stop progressing in warlock). It's 3-4 sessions that I am delayed important features for my class concept.

3-4 sessions is a good chunk of the total time I would play this character. Whether that's 25% or 33% or 50% of the time it doesn't really matter.

I see what your saying and you are correct in that I did/do not see delaying of the first few levels as a big deal. Basically it comes down to the first few level being very fast and I generally play to at least level 12 so those first few sessions are more like background and camaraderie missions for the party in most of my campaigns. Your campaigns are fairly short and low levels so I can see why that is a bigger deal to you. There was no way for me to know that before the conversation. I was just responding with a suggestion from that prospective. That said, with campaigns that short, it does really matter so horribly much how you play since your going to start over with a new character fairly soon. Your not forced to live with bad dissensions or minor flaws adding up as you go. Your campaign requires you to get up and running quick or miss the train. Your design is a good Face/scout. Since your imp is going to be the one dying to traps most likely it not even a big deal that your choose not to have proficiency in dex saves as a scout. Though that could add up in gold.

Just curious, any reason you don't player longer campaigns? Ours usually gets ended by the GM about level 12 because he has an idea for a new story and is tired of the current one. So its basically GM focus tolerance level not TPK or lack of player interest.

 

[FrogReaver]

I see what your saying and you are correct in that I did/do not see delaying of the first few levels as a big deal. Basically it comes down to the first few level being very fast and I generally play to at least level 12 so those first few sessions are more like background and camaraderie missions for the party in most of my campaigns. Your campaigns are fairly short and low levels so I can see why that is a bigger deal to you. There was no way for me to know that before the conversation. I was just responding with a suggestion from that prospective. That said, with campaigns that short, it does really matter so horribly much how you play since your going to start over with a new character fairly soon. Your not forced to live with bad dissensions or minor flaws adding up as you go. Your campaign requires you to get up and running quick or miss the train. Your design is a good Face/scout. Since your imp is going to be the one dying to traps most likely it not even a big deal that your choose not to have proficiency in dex saves as a scout. Though that could add up in gold.

Just curious, any reason you don't player longer campaigns? Ours usually gets ended by the GM about level 12 because he has an idea for a new story and is tired of the current one. So its basically GM focus tolerance level not TPK or lack of player interest.

Same reason your DM ends campaigns at level 12.