D&D 5E Warlock Higher Level Spellcasting: Too easy to counter/dispel or effective?

[UngeheuerLich]

Counterspell range is 30 ft. Or 60 maybe. Not too difficult to evade.
Also as mentioned you cast every spell with a high slot. So it is not too easy to dispell you.

 

[Eejit]

Counterspell range is 30 ft. Or 60 maybe. Not too difficult to evade.
Also as mentioned you cast every spell with a high slot. So it is not too easy to dispell you.

60. It seems most damage spells outrange it; most control spells don't.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'll chime in with another point as to why I (and perhaps others) might not be having the same situation you are, Celtavian. Even in the case when my enemies are or have spellcasters, I don't demarcate any of them as specifically counter/dispellers. No one in the enemy group has the job to do nothing but counter or dispel magic. If one of the monsters wants or has the opportunity to, then sure I'll have them do it... but I don't design the enemy combatant party so that they have that "job" always taken care of.

Now granted... you've talked a lot about your campaigns, which I believe involve a lot of optimization and is very centric on the PCs overcoming the specific game challenges you throw at them (as opposed to say a more story-centric style) and thus I can certainly see why you would create enemy spellcaster encounters that had selected members there just to counter/dispell. But I would suspect you'll probably not find many others here with that similar problem (and thus not really be able to give you accurate comparison with how they deal with it or the warlock's use.)

From how you've been talking about what you experience in your game, I can certainly see how the warlock might be getting short shrift if they always get counter/dispelled. And truth be told, I suspect that just might be the price the warlock player has to pay for playing that class in your particular style of campaign. If there are 2 or more enemy spellcasters in most fights doing nothing but counter/dispelling... then yeah... the warlock might be S.O.L.

 

[Neonchameleon]

One of the interesting things about the 5e warlock is that it doesn't play like any pre-4e spellcaster.

First, Eldritch Blast is substantially better than any other combat cantrip - and for very good reasons. Eldritch Blast scales like weapon attacks - especially once you have +Cha to damage on each of the blasts.

Second, Warlocks are masters of At Will magic. When I play a warlock I only break out my two slotted spells when I know the chips are down - and that's never in the first round of combat. Instead I play illusionist - using Silent Image At Will. (Please waste your couterspell on my at will spell - I'll even make a deception check to trick you into believing it's something else). Also setting up complete cover (Yes, this is a wall. Honest). And warlocks can learn rituals from any class (with the right invocation).

But playing a warlock takes a certain mindset and you're not going to outpower a normal primary caster. Combat isn't your time to shine, merely to be effective.

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

My experience has been that counterspelling the Warlock is a bad idea if there are other full casters in the group. Anyone who wastes a counterspell/dispel on my BladeLock is going to get destroyed by the Evoker and/or the Necromancer he runs around with. Unless the Paladin smites them first. It's all the same to him.

 

[Tanaka Chris]

As a Warlock, I'd be spamming my EBs at the offending dispeller/counterspeller in advance especially if such spellcasters are present every battle.
Much like the enemies adapt to the situation, players should do the same?

Also, on Hex not being Concentration... I worked out with my DM, using Bestow Curse as a model, where higher level castings lose the Concentration mechanic, any Hex cast at lvl 3 slots and above also no longer require concentration

 

[mellored]

If casters are spending all their slots to counter a warlock, then they aren't spending their slots to cast hold person on the fighter.

Also, a level 20 warlock has 12 level 5 spells per day (assuming 2 short rests).
While a level 20 caster has 9 level 5+ spells per day. (wizards/land druids get 7 max).

Warlock slots are effectively cheaper then other casters.
(Though NPC slots are even cheaper).

 

[Celtavian]

If casters are spending all their slots to counter a warlock, then they aren't spending their slots to cast hold person on the fighter.

Also, a level 20 warlock has 12 level 5 spells per day (assuming 2 short rests).
While a level 20 caster has 9 level 5+ spells per day. (wizards/land druids get 7 max).

Warlock slots are effectively cheaper then other casters.
(Though NPC slots are even cheaper).

This is irrelevant in combats against enemies that aren't worried about spell attrition. Enemy casters that start a combat with their full complement of spells that they get to expend to destroy the party then and there without concern about the next PC party showing up.

 

[mellored]

This is irrelevant in combats against enemies that aren't worried about spell attrition. Enemy casters that start a combat with their full complement of spells that they get to expend to destroy the party then and there without concern about the next PC party showing up.

True. Which is why all the casters in the MM only have 3-4 slots.

But still, a caster who spends 4 slots to counter the warlocks 4 slots, then the warlock will easy beat him in cantrip damage. Boring perhaps, but effective.

And a warlock who fights a counter-spell caster will still be better off in the next fight then a wizard. Since he can recharge his slots faster and has better cantrip damage.

 

[Celtavian]

True. Which is why all the casters in the MM only have 3-4 slots.

But still, a caster who spends 4 slots to counter the warlocks 4 slots, then the warlock will easy beat him in cantrip damage. Boring perhaps, but effective.

And a warlock who fights a counter-spell caster will still be better off in the next fight then a wizard. Since he can recharge his slots faster and has better cantrip damage.

The CR 12 Archmage has 20 slots. The CR 6 mage has 14 slots. They appear to be designed just like PC casters as far as slots go. A glabrezu can dispel magic at will. I design NPC casters and creatures using a similar limitations.