D&D 5E Warlock Higher Level Spellcasting: Too easy to counter/dispel or effective?

[Celtavian]

But where is the problem in this? Nothing wrong with having to change your tactics sometimes. Do you include an enemy caster in every fight? Then I can see your caster PCs getting frustrated that their spells are always counterspelled. Do the martial characters in your party lack ranged attacks? They should make killing the enemy caster their top priority.

When I try to use an enemy caster against my players they usually kill him on the first round...

Not every fight. There's no problem with it. Just seems to hurt the warlock more than other casters given his very low number of slots. Maybe they are intended to pretty much fire off eldritch blast with situationally effective casting.

 

[Mephista]

Frankly, it entirely depends on how you build the warlock, and how the game is run by the GM. There's a lot of problems with the warlock when it comes to being able to use utility spells, and why short rests are so critical to the warlock. In general, my experience has shown that, in calm situations where there's not a lot of time crunch, the warlock has access to more magic utility than anyone else. There's no fear of flinging around Hexes or Charms to deplete your daily alotment when you're going to just be riding a horse for the next hour. But, when you're expecting encounter after encounter? You're suddenly a lot less flexible, and you have to hoard magic. So, yes, in this situation where you can't expect another short rest anytime soon, you are hit harder by dispell / counter magic, and that's only if you're relying on buffs and not offensive magic - one of my favorite tricks with the warlock is to use the Command spell to force enemies to runaway, provoking AoO. I get Eldritch Blasts thanks to Warcaster, our rogue gets to sneak attack, and the pally in the group smites. The scaling level means I always hit multiple enemies with that one.

Part of the reason why rings of spell storing, rod of the pact bearer, and the tiefling are such a huge boon to being a warlock - all those extra spells you can get in a pinch are a huge boon (though I do scale the damage from burning hands/hellish rebuke up with level, like cantrips). It gives you more flexibility and options.

 

[Eejit]

It is fairly easy in 5E to go out of range. Sharpshooter makes it way too easy to annihilate casters at range. There's no way for a caster to hide if not invisible with Sharpshooter other than full cover.



After reading the sage, I believe you know the spell and level it is cast if within range to use counterspell unless you're using something like subtle spell to avoid the caster seeing the casting. There is no check or anything required. You know what you're countering and get to choose accordingly.

I see the one about spell level, but not spell identity - link?

 

[spectacle]

Not every fight. There's no problem with it. Just seems to hurt the warlock more than other casters given his very low number of slots. Maybe they are intended to pretty much fire off eldritch blast with situationally effective casting.

That's been my take on the warlock. He's a ranged striker who can cast some spells for support and utility.

They may have just a few spell slots, but wasting high levels slots hurts other casters more since they only get a few per day, warlocks get theirs back after a short rest. A wizard reduced to casting low level spells is about on the same level as a warlock using only eldritch blast.

 

[Mirtek]

Hmm. So you think it is likely intentional that they be reduced to eldritch blast with situationally effective casting.

Yes. I may be wrong if course, but to me this looks like the role of the class.

A warlock complaining he has to EB most of the time is like an Archer complaining he's shooting his bow most of the time.

And from time to time throw a real spell or make clever use if incantations to spice up the routine, whether you"re an EBer or pact weapon basher, but those two are your bread and butter

Again, that"s my impression of the idea behind the class, may be entirely wrong.

 

[Celtavian]

I see the one about spell level, but not spell identity - link?

No link. It seemed to imply that if you know the level, you know the spell. The only requirement is that you can see the casting to know the spell. Since there was nothing saying counterspell requires a Knowledge (Arcana) check or anything of the kind, I went with a caster knows the spell to keep it uncomplicated. Have you found any rule that requires the caster to make a check or a rule that indicates they don't know what is being cast? This seems to be one of those things that can be played either way and you'll be correct. Or did you come up with some house rule as to how they figure it out?

 

[Eejit]

No link. It seemed to imply that if you know the level, you know the spell. The only requirement is that you can see the casting to know the spell. Since there was nothing saying counterspell requires a Knowledge (Arcana) check or anything of the kind, I went with a caster knows the spell to keep it uncomplicated. Have you found any rule that requires the caster to make a check or a rule that indicates they don't know what is being cast? This seems to be one of those things that can be played either way and you'll be correct. Or did you come up with some house rule as to how they figure it out?

My DM only used counterspell in one session, but he did mention afterwards that he'd plan to allow sleight of hand checks to obscure which specific spell was being cast, assuming there's enough noise that verbal components wouldn't be easy to identify. Which would be pretty cool and thematic for Arcane Tricksters.

I'd probably do something similar... though I guess it partly depends on your setting - are somatic components fixed and uniform among casters? Are they more like aides for concentrating that can vary (a la Wheel of Time Aes Sedai - though they have their own methods of identifying spells)?

 

[Celtavian]

My DM only used counterspell in one session, but he did mention afterwards that he'd plan to allow sleight of hand checks to obscure which specific spell was being cast, assuming there's enough noise that verbal components wouldn't be easy to identify. Which would be pretty cool and thematic for Arcane Tricksters.

I'd probably do something similar... though I guess it partly depends on your setting - are somatic components fixed and uniform among casters? Are they more like aides for concentrating that can vary (a la Wheel of Time Aes Sedai - though they have their own methods of identifying spells)?

I know in Pathfinder it required a Spellcraft check to know what was being cast.

This edition seems to want to keep things uncomplicated and ensure spells work. So they didn't bother to include a mechanic for identifying spells as they are cast. The knowing what level and use of Subtle Spell countering counterspell seemed to indicate that unless measures are taken, the spell is known. So I went with it.

Your method would work as well as any I've seen. I figure a Knowledge (Arcana) versus Sleight of Hand (Dexterity) or anything similar would be a workable house rule, though it would benefit certain classes more than others. I figure the specifics of somatic gestures are up to the DM. I also figure casters have knowledge of so many spells, they would know them even if a few gestures or words were changed. The Pathfinder mechanic became a pointless additional roll after a while given how high Spellcraft skill went. I do tend to like mechanics that eliminate rolling and speed up the game.

 

[Azurewraith]

Who cares if in 1fight out of 10 the warlock has his spell casting completely shut down at least after the fight he can say "my magical energies are drained i would appreciate it if we could have a tea break" where as the wizard who had his high level spells burnt off goes " thats me being sucky for the next 18or so hours" but then thats no different to the barbarian wading in and locking down an area with sentinel stopping afterwards to spend some hit die. Some times characters shine bright other times they are just a background character its the way it works. Now if every encounter your throwing in a a high level thats just mean.

 

[Uchawi]

It really boils down to classes with fewer abilities or short recycle periods versus those like the wizard that have more choices with long recycle periods. The later is more adaptable unless the DM is generous with the short refresh cycles, which I am guessing the majority are not. From a realism standpoint who is going to grant back to back rest periods?

If you interrupt a barbarian's rage it is a real let down for the player.