D&D 5E Warlock in party with Quasit breaking story

[IronWarrior18]

I've had a similar problem with an player I had in an old pathfinder game. Dealing with an invisible familiar with flying that just scouts everything in advance can be challenging. I found that the best way to deal with it was including weight sensitive traps, hidden doors, or stealthy enemies that were too difficult for the familiar to find on its own (due to it having a lower perception bonus). Also arcane lock and well-sealed doors are your friend. You can argue that the magic prevents the familiar from crawling thru and many doors are solid and slide or role instead or swinging on a hinge. Don't punish your player for being clever, simply improve the challenge of the dungeons to keep the game fun. Also don't overdo it on the locks and traps, if the player feels that you are directly moving to counter him/her, it will ruin the game for him/her. Maybe use 1 blockage for every 2 passable doors.

 

[schnee]

The thing is, it will work on certain types of foes - and the level of security and paranoia they have - but not others.

Make sure the ones it doesn't work on have a legitimate, sensible reason why not, or else this player will (rightly) feel nerfed. This power is a significant investment for a Warlock, and they only get a few powerful options in comparison to, say, a Wizard.

Since you two got in that heated argument, that player is going to be really waiting for you to 'nerf' them again and will maybe even perceive that as happening with normal judgment calls.

And, just preparing you, if you think this one Warlock power is driving you nuts, just wait until 5th level spells!

 

[koga305]

To player (in private): "That's a pretty cool character. I liked that invisibility trick with the <fill in campaign anecdote you enjoyed>. But I think we goofed a bit. I didn't realize when we were getting your character ready for the campaign that his abilities might not work with this campaign the way it was intended. How would you feel about doing something a bit different? One thing that might be cool would be if we turn this character into a mostly NPC antagonist, while you can make another character that fits better on the heroes' side. If you want, you could play him some times as a foil to the parties plans, and let them see just how cool those abilities are from the other side. We'll have to figure out how to have him betray the party so it will have the best psychological effect..."

Wait, you're suggesting that OP ask their player to betray the party because their character's feature (legitimately obtained) ended up being a little too powerful? Seems like overkill. If, story-wise, the player's character was acting contrary to the goals of the party, I could see this being a good solution. But just for picking an out-of-the-box character option and using it in a clever way? I'd be a bit irritated if my DM brought this up as a solution.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Wait, you're suggesting that OP ask their player to betray the party because their character's feature (legitimately obtained) ended up being a little too powerful? Seems like overkill. If, story-wise, the player's character was acting contrary to the goals of the party, I could see this being a good solution. But just for picking an out-of-the-box character option and using it in a clever way? I'd be a bit irritated if my DM brought this up as a solution.

My philosophy is that the campaign comes first. Ideally, you make sure all the characters will fit in the campaign from the beginning. But if that fails, and one character proves to be disrupting the campaign, then you need to find a way to fix it. It isn't fair to take away from everyone else the campaign they signed up for because one PC doesn't really fit.

There's nothing wrong with those special abilities, and I'd hate to have my character's abilities nerfed or countered at every turn. The alternative is for a mature player to realize that This PC + This Campaign = Bad Fit, and play a different character where they can freely do what would make sense to the character without issues.. My suggestion is just an idea of how one might do that in a way that sounds interesting (and kind of appropriate for a warlock with a quasit (I assume Fiend pact)).

From my perspective, going through hoops to try to patch a bad fit in some strained way that risks no one being satisfied is the drastic solution, while simply playing a different character is the easy one. I mean, there is no rule that says you can't play that character again in a different game where their abilities are useful but not disruptive to the campaign theme.

I don't know. I see D&D as a team sport. In a team sport, the team has to come before any individual player. I'm not sure why there is even disagreement on that issue, but for some reason there is no end of disagreement on that when it comes to RPGs. I think some people play RPGs the way they drive--like they own the road and everyone else needs to get out of their way. It's just weird to me.

 

[Caliban]

My philosophy is that the campaign comes first.

Weird. My philosophy is "The players and the DM should both have fun". The "campaign" doesn't have sentience, so it doesn't get a vote.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Weird. My philosophy is "The players and the DM should both have fun". The "campaign" doesn't have sentience, so it doesn't get a vote.

I compared a D&D group to a sports team. Do you feel that is a bad analogy? If so, why?

 

[Yunru]

I compared a D&D group to a sports team. Do you feel that is a bad analogy? If so, why?

Definitely. Sports is a competition where the goal is winning (thus the match comes first).
D&D is a game where the goal is having fun (thus the party's enjoyment comes first).

 

[Hussar]

I'm going to echo other's sentiments here. I'd incorporate the player's character abilities and simply change focus. Instead of things being about the mystery of that castle, it's about how the players react and interact with known elements. To me, I think this is a fantastic opportunity.

Think about it, in most adventure scenarios, player choices are more or less random - do we turn left or right? Since the players don't have much, if any information to go on, the decision ultimately doesn't matter. One is as good as the other and you might as well flip a coin.

But now, the party actually knows things going in. Note, they won't know about secret doors or chambers. They won't know about traps either since it's highly unlikely that an imp or quasit would trigger most traps. So, we still have the unknown to play with.

However, now when the party comes to that T junction, they know there are zombies to the left and a scary altar room to the right. Which do they choose? And, that choice isn't just a random guess.

That player has gift wrapped you a HUGE present. You want to get some background exposition into your player's hands, great, the quasit listens in on a conversation between Baron McEvil and one of his henchmen. Maybe there's a book lying open somewhere with a map, or diary or whatever. And, exactly how do the players intend to challenge that nightmare in the stables without alerting the guards across the courtyard?

Friend, this isn't a problem. This is a great opportunity. I just wish my players would actively seek out information like this instead of blindly blundering from encounter to encounter.

 

[Ratskinner]

Hello guys. I'm a novice DM and am running a party of 4 through a story of my own making. I'v spent quite a lot of time coming with the story and it is my focus in the campaign. I often try to create suspense, mystery, a feeling of exploration etc. All is going well except one thing: we have a warlock/sorcerer multi-class in the party with pact of the chain. He has a quasit familiar that can fly, can be used for his senses up to a mile away, is invisible and can shape change. This basically means he always knows everything in advance. Also the quasit is a slave, meaning he can't disobey. Here's an example.

1. There is a small mysterious castle in the distance. He just sends the quasit to fly over and scout everything.
2. There are guards everywhere. Quasit doesn't care: he's invisible.
3. There is a locked door. Quasit doesn't care. He transforms into a small centipede and enters through the lock.
4. Oh no it's been detected. Warlock can just instantly recall it.
5. Oh no it's killed. Warlock can have another within an hour.

Seriously? I can't create any surprises or suspense or anything when he knows everything in advance. I have 2 questions:

1. Is everything I said here valid? Can he really do everything I described?
2. If it is then can any more experienced DMs tell me how I can counter that without just saying every creature in the world has true sight because that would make zero sense.

Any help is greatly appreciated because I am feeling quite powerless to present the story I want and don't want to just say "DM rule. You can't use a Quasit. Deal with it"

Just a few thoughts.

1) Time. Don't create suspense, create tension. Find something the other party members care about and have them lose, just flat out lose it, because it took too much time for the quasi to scout a 1 mile radius of woodland or whatever. If you're feeling generous, foreshadow this with a time sensitive plot that almost goes bad.

2) Angels, Men in Black, Druids. Somebody somewhere will be annoyed by a rampant quasit and come calling.

3) Kill it regularly. Have the warlock's patron get mad.

4) combine 1-3 as needed for extra hilarity.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using EN World mobile app

 

[Hussar]

I gotta admit, I strongly disagree with the advice that boils down to "nerf this ability". Whether it be things like "kill it frequently" or whatever. IMO, you will get much better results by compromising what you think is fun with what the player has indicated will be fun.

Now, there is the practical issue of time. If you're spending half the session with the warlock player doing a one man show basically investigating the entire adventure, then sure, that's no fun for anyone. D&D isn't a spectator sport. But, the solution here isn't necessarily to nerf the warlock, but, rather to adapt and overcome.

You know that the Warlock player is going to do this, so, prepare for it. Write up a handout beforehand for what the quasit learns. Ok, here's a map of where the quasit went (show an edited map of your adventure, leaving off stuff that the quasit couldn't have learned - traps, secret doors, etc. Heck, use that map as your handout. Freehand the map - it doesn't have to be perfectly accurate, it's not like the quasit is pacing off rooms. Label the map with what the quasit saw inside - this is a guard room with 4 orcs, this is common room, this is a garbage room, etc. Did the quasit overhear stuff? Well, does the caster speak that language? It's not like languages are that common - lots of critters speak stuff that the caster doesn't, in all likelihood. So, maybe the warlock learns half a dozen things - PLOT HOOKS FTW!

Now you have a cool little handout to pass off to the warlock player to share with the group. Cool, you just laser beam focused the entire group's attention. Hey, maybe the orcs are talking about something in those rough caverns back there that scares them, but, they haven't seen it, and the quasit didn't either (ochre jelly, invisible stalker, mimics, pretty much any "ambush" monster).

Really, this is no different than when the mage gets Arcane Eye. Arcane Eye is every bit as powerful as this quasit combo. Great. Don't fight it. USE it. Instead of your players wading in blindly and just reacting, now they get to be pro-active. I think you'll find that once the players make that transition, your game will be very fun.