D&D 5E (2014) Warlocks and Hex and the "daily morning short rest"

[Werebat]

Good point about Concentration. Can anyone think of a way in which disallowing short rests while Concentrating on spells would create wonky effects in other areas of the game?

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yeah I'd never allow resting whilst concentrating, although it is not spelt out as a way that concentration can be broken. But concentrating on a spell is not resting IMO, that my ruling not rules. Mearls interpretation is that it is OK, but he is not the official rules Sage either!

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/20/concentration-during-rest/

Mearls also implies that you always need a target

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/10/19/spell-after-an-encounter/

 

[Caliban]

Nah, concentration isn't a "hefty mental exertion". You can maintain it while casting other spells, or even when taking damage. Doing it while sitting around resting is nothing.

You can rule otherwise, but that's just being prejudiced against warlocks.

I play and DM warlocks, and this is really much ado about nothing. There are better concentration spells for a warlock to use at higher levels, so if they want to restrict themselves to just Hex it actually makes them less effective. (Don't get me wrong, Hex is very useful but there are many situations where other spells are more useful.)

 

[Caliban]

We'll have to agree to disagree, because no, it's not.

I'll disagree with you then, because by MY reading of the rules, Hex is clearly intended to be maintained through a short rest. Why else would the duration extend out to 24 hours with a high enough spell slot?

 

[Ganymede81]

I rule that concentrating on a spell is more strenuous than "eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds," the limits of exertion that allow a character to still benefit from a short rest.

As such, taking a short rest breaks a character's concentration on spells.

Why else would the duration extend out to 24 hours with a high enough spell slot?

I think it is pretty easy to fathom that some adventuring days, whether through necessity or convenience, have no short rests. The existence of those days is reason enough why such a long duration would exist.

 

[Xeviat]

A 24 hour duration and a default assumption of 2 short rests per day makes me okay with concentrating through a short rest. What I'm not okay with is short resting immediately after waking up in the morning. If my table wanted to play it like that, I'd likely limit them to two short rests a day and use some of my daily planned encounters as "random" encounters during their rest.


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[Caliban]

I rule that concentrating on a spell is more strenuous than "eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds," the limits of exertion that allow a character to still benefit from a short rest.

As such, taking a short rest breaks a character's concentration on spells.

Well, all I can say is you have ruled incorrectly. The game designers have weighed in, and they don't agree with you. Either way, it's really not a big deal.

I think it is pretty easy to fathom that some adventuring days, whether through necessity or convenience, have no short rests. The existence of those days is reason enough why such a long duration would exist.

And I think that is a rather disingenuous line of reasoning. You honestly think that they allowed the duration of 24 hours on the off chance that that the PC's may have to go a full 24 hours with no rest? And just those two spells? Please.

 

[cbwjm]

Perhaps people are looking at hex (and hunter's mark) increased duration as a result of wanting to deal additional damage. Both of these spells have secondary effects as well that might account for why it has an increased duration.

As is, since a short rest doesn't incapacitate the caster of a concentration spell, there is no reason for a caster to be unable to concentrate on the spell during a short rest. I don't have a warlock, but I do have a hunter, and I do allow them to concentrate on and then reassign their mark in a later encounter assuming the duration isn't up.

 

[Ganymede81]

Well, all I can say is you have ruled incorrectly. The game designers have weighed in, and they don't agree with you. Either way, it's really not a big deal.

We'll talk about that at the start of our next gaming session together. I might not be able to accommodate your wishes completely, but I am sure we can come up with a compromise that works for both your character and the campaign world. If Mike Mearls shows up with his janky Gnome Illusionist/Barbarian, I'll be willing to hear his point of view as well.

And I think that is a rather disingenuous line of reasoning. You honestly think that they allowed the duration of 24 hours on the off chance that that the PC's may have to go a full 24 hours with no rest? And just those two spells? Please.

No.

You asked why else the duration would be 24 hours, and I gave you a reason why the duration would be relevant. While you might have difficulty imagining a group not being willing/able to take short rests during an adventuring day, that speaks more to the strength of your imagination than it does to any cogent rebuttal.

You might say that having a short rest in a day is pretty common, and use that as justification for why concentration spells with a 24 hour duration ignores short rests. The flaw in that reasoning is that a 24 hour period is significantly more likely to have a long rest than it is to have a short rest, and your logic would apply equally to those spells ignoring long rests.

After all, since a long rest is even more of a given than a pair of short rests, resulting in an adventuring day that is only really 16 hours long, your logic would apply even more strongly to concentration not being interrupted by long rests.

As is, since a short rest doesn't incapacitate the caster of a concentration spell, there is no reason for a caster to be unable to concentrate on the spell during a short rest.

You cannot benefit from a short rest if you do anything more strenuous "eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds." Whether or not short rests incapacitate the character is not the issue; the issue is whether concentrating on a spell is more strenuous than "eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."

Fighting, engaging in exercise, and participating in a juggling routine do not incapacitate you, but they all are more strenuous than "eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."

 

[cbwjm]

You can concentrate on a spell while fighting, engaging in exercise, or during a juggling routine so I figure you can concentrate on one during a short rest.