D&D 5E Warlocks seem pointless

[Zardnaar]

In 2 groups with 9 PCs we have 3 warlocks. None of them are single classed though.

 

[Joe Liker]

Sleep is important because if you go too long without it, you gain levels of exhaustion (although in a quick search of the basic rules I couldn't find the rules for this). It doesn't seem to me like it matters for resting though.

This is exactly the problem. By the rules as written, no character of any race has to sleep, ever. There is no explicit penalty for not sleeping. It is not required as part of a rest, and apart from the fact that elves don't do it at all, natural sleep is not mentioned anywhere else in any of the rulebooks.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Look it up yourself; whatever, I'm not lying. Why would I? For what it's worth, probably on their Twitter account.

Or don't, since you are going to do whatever you want anyway; but the designers for some reason, don't want elves off the hook for the full 8 hours.

I’m asking for a direct citation because, as we’ve seen with the cited text on this thread already, it can possibly be interpreted in a number of ways.

 

[TrippyHippy]

GM:

This is exactly the problem. By the rules as written, no character of any race has to sleep, ever. There is no explicit penalty for not sleeping. It is not required as part of a rest, and apart from the fact that elves don't do it at all, natural sleep is not mentioned anywhere else in any of the rulebooks.

The rules as written include sleep as part of rest, along with other light activities. The confusion only arises when you choose to interpret the nominal ’no more than two hours’ as only including standing watch (rather than pertaining to all ‘light activity’ listed after the colon). If you interpret the sentence that no more than two hours ‘light activity’ inclusively, which is an entirely legitimate interpretation of the sentence, then it makes perfect sense - rules as written.

Beyond that: y’know, common sense rules!

Edit: The rules as written, as quoted below, are my understanding:

In summary yes it seems long rests are 8 hours long for everyone including elves, but they get 4 hours of trance and 4 of light activity, while everyone else is 6 and 2.

You could choose to impose further penalties for the fatigue of not sleeping, although most in games I’ve played in the penalty of not being able to replenish HP or spells largely covers that anyway. These factors, in a sense are actually a form of measuring fatigue.

 

[Paraxis]

A level of exhaustion feels appropriate for any pc that hasn't taken a long rest in 48 hours of activity, I know it's not spelled out but common sense and all.

 

[Erik42]

I'd say we've gotten a little off track here. Maybe we need a new thread to discuss elven trances and long rests. The thread was originally about whether or not the warlock is a competitive class.

 

[SirAntoine]

Keep looking. Wizards of the Coast must have given them something good.

 

[Schmoe]

I wanna say, thanks to this thread, I've made my first Warlock tonight. We cut off before combat, but he's already so much fun, and I'm absolutely gonna go with Blade Pact.

The character is awesome. He's like a mix between main characters from the Assassin's Creed games, and Jaime Lannister from Game of Thrones/Song of Ice And Fire. He's got the Fey Patron, and I chose the Noble background, with the Knight Variant. He's the greatest thing ever. Thank you, various people in this thread.

That's great to hear! You'll have to come back and let people know how well the character is doing after you've had a few sessions under your belt.

 

[Ashrym]

I’m asking for a direct citation because, as we’ve seen with the cited text on this thread already, it can possibly be interpreted in a number of ways.

Jeremy Crawford confirmed it on twitter and it's located in the sage advice link posted earlier.

Joe is correct, however, and there is no sleep requirement rule. The requirements are 8 hours of rest for a long rest but not sleep. This enables elves to engage in more light activity during the long rest. It's assumed players sleep each night and this also covers the long rest, of which on 1 may be applied in any 24 hour period.

I agree with you that it's basically the same thing because both activities tend to occur simultaneously, but the answer provided was elves need 8 hours for a long rest too, and only need to trance for less time than other races need to sleep. Since only one long rest can give benefits in a 24 hour period and going beyond 8 hours of traveling around starts to give exhaustion checks I don't see any negative impact from allowing benefits of a long rest after 4 hours of trance for an elf. Otherwise it's largely superfluous fluff.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Jeremy Crawford confirmed it on twitter and it's located in the sage advice link posted earlier.

Joe is correct, however, and there is no sleep requirement rule. The requirements are 8 hours of rest for a long rest but not sleep.

I refer you to this stated rule again:

In summary yes it seems long rests are 8 hours long for everyone including elves, but they get 4 hours of trance and 4 of light activity, while everyone else is 6 and 2.

Along with the Jeremy Crawford link:

http://www.sageadvice.eu/?s=trance

….and quote:

@imnotasnowflake A long rest is 8 hours for an elf, but the elf can spend much of it on watch and doing light activity, while others sleep. — Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford) November 12, 2014

The Player’s Handbook states that a long rest is:

at least 8 hours long, during which the character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than two hours.

This has been misinterpreted by some people who think ‘no more than two hours’ refers only to standing watch. It doesn’t, evidently. It refers to all forms of light activity - hence a long rest consists mostly of sleeping….unless you are an elf.

I’d say we’ve gotten a little off track here. Maybe we need a new thread to discuss elven trances and long rests. The thread was originally about whether or not the warlock is a competitive class.

Reasonable point. I’m not sure how the conversation started, but it seems that resting is a key factor for some about a Warlock’s viability as a class. I’m happy to move to another thread if necessary - although I’m not sure it really is!