D&D 5E (2014) Warlocks seem pointless

He can't out scout the Shadowdancer Monk. At will Teleporting and Invisiblity plus Shadow Arts and other monk goodies. Throw in some rogue for Stealth and thieves tools expertise to take it up another notch.
The Chain Pact familiar has at-will flight and invisibility, and the warlock can share its senses at infinite range. Plus, if it does get caught, the warlock can poof it and make it reappear next to him. Even if it gets killed, he can just summon another one at little expense.

Picking locks is not part of his arsenal, granted, but that's burglary, not scouting. And you can't just "throw in some rogue" unless you allow the warlock to do likewise.
 

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As long as you bear in mind that viability is not always measured in sheer damage. It's something optimizers seem to have trouble remembering, but in the warlock's case I think it's a hugely important concept. There are many ways for a warlock to excel, and while murder can certainly be one of them, it doesn't have to be.

As a trickster, scoundrel, or social engineer, the warlock can outshine both the bard and rogue if he puts his mind to it. Built correctly, a warlock can out-scout any rogue or ranger. You can even be better at rituals than any other class, including wizards.

Obviously, you can't be the absolute best at all of these at once, but I feel like the warlock has the potential to progress in more different directions than any other class, and be a total ace at it once he picks a path.

Very true. Ignoring eldritch blast is possible but for a cantrip, an evocation and maybe a spell you get great ranged at will damage. You can then dedicate all the rest of your build to doing whatever you want to.
 

The Chain Pact familiar has at-will flight and invisibility, and the warlock can share its senses at infinite range. Plus, if it does get caught, the warlock can poof it and make it reappear next to him. Even if it gets killed, he can just summon another one at little expense.

Picking locks is not part of his arsenal, granted, but that's burglary, not scouting. And you can't just "throw in some rogue" unless you allow the warlock to do likewise.

Stealthy infiltration might be a better term for what gyor is describing.

The monk will have better bonuses, the monk's shadow step and shadow cloak abilities don't cost ki, and eventually empty body becomes available. It's hard for an invisible familiar to compete with and invisible monk who can also cast pass-without-trace for 2 ki points. The only drawback to the monk is he or she still needs to avoid bright light, but is less likely to get noticed and more durable if needed. Likely better perception too, based on WIS as typical for the class plus possible proficiency the familiar doesn't have.

I prefer to avoid absolute statements like, "As a trickster, scoundrel, or social engineer, the warlock can outshine both the bard and rogue if he puts his mind to it. Built correctly, a warlock can out-scout any rogue or ranger. You can even be better at rituals than any other class, including wizards."

I'm not going to commit to disagreeing, because I miss things too and I'm not sure how you would plan to do some of those, but I have some first thoughts on it.

My first thoughts are that the warlock cannot match the skill checks available to rogues and bards, nor can his or her familiar. Bards have half proficiency or proficiency in everything, and lore bards can use inspiration on their own checks. Rogues don't have bonuses to everything but they do have the most base proficiencies, minimum rolls, and the capstone as a fail-safe. Either can supplement skills with spells.

Chain pact warlocks do have massive range on a familiar that can be invisible. Beastmaster rangers don't have the range but do have access to speak with animals and beast sense to make better use of their companions; the companions progress in proficiency, AC, damage, and hit points with the ranger levels; and something like a hawk (proficient in perception with advantage on the rolls for keen) allows for things like aerial overhead view (familiar can do this too but without the perception bonus) and then when he spots the cave or ruins or whatever, the ranger can use primeval awareness to attempt to learn of what monsters might lurk in said whatever from a comfortable range too. Several suitable companions are proficient in stealth and perception for a similar trick to familiars, but with a much sturdier remote scout.

Tome warlocks can potentially get all rituals from all classes. The caveat on that is first they have to find them, and the wizard has the largest list of rituals already that he can add as he levels without looking for more.


I would be more inclined to state that warlocks have strong advantages in the areas in which they focus. It sounds like a very interesting line of discussion on how warlocks do such things, however. I've found them very versatile so wouldn't be surprised if there are some more gems in there I missed.
 

You can keep up on DPR just fine. If you're wielding a greatsword, your DPR stays ahead of the eldritch blast warlock up to level 10. You'll fall behind at 11th, but catch up again with Lifedrinker at 12th. If you're allowed feats, you can get Polearm Master and do even better when Lifedrinker kicks in.

Your problem will be AC; since Strength is your main stat and Charisma is your secondary, you won't have much left for Dexterity, and you're only proficient with light armor. You could get away with a lousy AC if you were a traditional blaster warlock, but a bladelock expects to be on the front lines. That means you have a choice:

  • Play a mountain dwarf.
  • Dip fighter or some other class proficient in heavy armor.
  • Spend a feat on Moderately Armored, or two to get Heavily Armored.
  • Get hit a lot.

Seeing as a lot of Warlock DPR actually comes from getting hit a lot (Hellish rebuke and Armor of Agathys) and they have a fair few class features and spells that grant temp HP or resistance, this latter aspect is an intentional feature of the class IMO.
 

Tome warlocks can potentially get all rituals from all classes. The caveat on that is first they have to find them, and the wizard has the largest list of rituals already that he can add as he levels without looking for more.
This is definitely a point to consider. I had actually planned to take the Tome Pact on a warlock, but we were playing HotDQ, and it struck me that this published campaign was not very likely to have included a lot of spellbooks among its loot.
 

This is definitely a point to consider. I had actually planned to take the Tome Pact on a warlock, but we were playing HotDQ, and it struck me that this published campaign was not very likely to have included a lot of spellbooks among its loot.

There's the potential to steal the Red Wizard's spellbook at several points.
 

There's the potential to steal the Red Wizard's spellbook at several points.
And at level 3, I would know that how, exactly? I had not yet met the Red Wizard (or any other wizard) at that point. We had certainly never stumbled across any spellbooks, unless the DM failed to mention them.
 


If your party has a wizard you can always copy out of his book for the freebies.

If the player is okay with it, and the warlock wants to pay the financial cost that works. There's no positive effect for the group, however, unless the wizard is unconscious/dead or the group is separated. If they are together the wizard can just use the rituals from his book anyway.
 

And at level 3, I would know that how, exactly? I had not yet met the Red Wizard (or any other wizard) at that point. We had certainly never stumbled across any spellbooks, unless the DM failed to mention them.

Because you got interested in the NPC who gets waived under your nose as an oddity in the middle of Episode IV of Hoard.
Get the jump on him, he's toast. Just don't get caught.
 

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