D&D 5E (2014) Warlocks seem pointless

[Pickles JG]

The thing about the warlock pacts is that they are really minor parts of the class as a whole. All subclasses are fairly minor in 5e - you are a very solid Class X regardless of what subclass you pick. Warlocks are at the extreme end especially since they have 2 choices & the pact seems less significant than the patron.

So cantrips are a minor boost & even rituals are a bit minor, you get a familiar that is a little bit better than anyone else's or you get the ability to compete in melee. The last is definitely the weakest as it duplicates what you can already do - damage but it's still valid & you can be a very effective character if you take it.

I have been playing a fighter 1/ Blade pact X & tanking/chopping with Armour of Agathys supported by heavy armour mastery & Infernal Pact temps. The fact that I do not have to use any invocations to boost Eldritch blast is liberating too. I do think it's better with the multiclass to remove dex dependency but dex instead of strength & being a level higher warlock would be fine too.

 

[Joe Liker]

Yep, I'm fine with that. If he took Great-Weapon Fighting, or Dueling, or Two-Weapon Fighting rather than Archery, and his own archery is still better...that's where I'm not happy.

You're getting tripped up by what you assume the intention is, and I think you are mistaken about the intention.

As I see it, no warlock is supposed to ignore Eldritch Blast. It is one of the class's iconic, defining features. In general, subclass abilities do not outshine or replace class fundamentals. Sometimes, they enhance the fundamentals, and in other cases, they fill in gaps. Pact of the Blade is meant to be a gap-filler, not a class-changer.

Likewise, Pact of the Tome fills the ritual gap, and Pact of the Chain fills a utility gap. If Pact of the Blade were actually stronger than Eldritch Blast, that would make it far more powerful than the other two pacts, and everyone would be complaining about the imbalance.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

You're getting tripped up by what you assume the intention is, and I think you are mistaken about the intention.

As I see it, no warlock is supposed to ignore Eldritch Blast. It is one of the class's iconic, defining features. In general, subclass abilities do not outshine or replace class fundamentals. Sometimes, they enhance the fundamentals, and in other cases, they fill in gaps. Pact of the Blade is meant to be a gap-filler, not a class-changer.

Likewise, Pact of the Tome fills the ritual gap, and Pact of the Chain fills a utility gap. If Pact of the Blade were actually stronger than Eldritch Blast, that would make it far more powerful than the other two pacts, and everyone would be complaining about the imbalance.

Hmm. I'm going to have to consider that and see how balance looks from that perspective. If that's actually how it is designed to be, then I might not need to change it much. I certainly don't intend throw off balance. Still not sure on intention though. Thanks for bringing that idea to my attention!

 

[Krakenspire]

Can you make a viable Blade Pact Warlock without taking Eldritch Blast? Or even a viable warlock at all without that particular cantrip? Seems like the DPS takes a hit but perhaps you're opening oneself to the other potential interesting options available and force yourself into a different way of looking at the character class.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Yep. Eldritch Blast is a very effective cantrip, but it’s not a requirement, and there are lots of cool options and character types with a Warlock.

 

[Dausuul]

Can you make a viable Blade Pact Warlock without taking Eldritch Blast? Or even a viable warlock at all without that particular cantrip? Seems like the DPS takes a hit but perhaps you're opening oneself to the other potential interesting options available and force yourself into a different way of looking at the character class.

You can keep up on DPR just fine. If you're wielding a greatsword, your DPR stays ahead of the eldritch blast warlock up to level 10. You'll fall behind at 11th, but catch up again with Lifedrinker at 12th. If you're allowed feats, you can get Polearm Master and do even better when Lifedrinker kicks in.

Your problem will be AC; since Strength is your main stat and Charisma is your secondary, you won't have much left for Dexterity, and you're only proficient with light armor. You could get away with a lousy AC if you were a traditional blaster warlock, but a bladelock expects to be on the front lines. That means you have a choice:

• Play a mountain dwarf.
• Dip fighter or some other class proficient in heavy armor.
• Spend a feat on Moderately Armored, or two to get Heavily Armored.
• Get hit a lot.

 

[Joe Liker]

Can you make a viable Blade Pact Warlock without taking Eldritch Blast? Or even a viable warlock at all without that particular cantrip? Seems like the DPS takes a hit but perhaps you're opening oneself to the other potential interesting options available and force yourself into a different way of looking at the character class.

As long as you bear in mind that viability is not always measured in sheer damage. It's something optimizers seem to have trouble remembering, but in the warlock's case I think it's a hugely important concept. There are many ways for a warlock to excel, and while murder can certainly be one of them, it doesn't have to be.

As a trickster, scoundrel, or social engineer, the warlock can outshine both the bard and rogue if he puts his mind to it. Built correctly, a warlock can out-scout any rogue or ranger. You can even be better at rituals than any other class, including wizards.

Obviously, you can't be the absolute best at all of these at once, but I feel like the warlock has the potential to progress in more different directions than any other class, and be a total ace at it once he picks a path.

 

[aramis erak]

You can keep up on DPR just fine. If you're wielding a greatsword, your DPR stays ahead of the eldritch blast warlock up to level 10. You'll fall behind at 11th, but catch up again with Lifedrinker at 12th. If you're allowed feats, you can get Polearm Master and do even better when Lifedrinker kicks in.

Your problem will be AC; since Strength is your main stat and Charisma is your secondary, you won't have much left for Dexterity, and you're only proficient with light armor. You could get away with a lousy AC if you were a traditional blaster warlock, but a bladelock expects to be on the front lines. That means you have a choice:

• Play a mountain dwarf.
• Dip fighter or some other class proficient in heavy armor.
• Spend a feat on Moderately Armored, or two to get Heavily Armored.
• Get hit a lot.

MC into fighter doesn't add heavy armor... only shields, light & medium. Same with ranger and paladin. PHB 164, top left.
Barbarian only adds shield....

 

[Dausuul]

MC into fighter doesn't add heavy armor... only shields, light & medium. Same with ranger and paladin. PHB 164, top left.
Barbarian only adds shield....

Rule #1 of dipping for proficiencies is you take the dip before the main class. First level goes in fighter, subsequent levels in warlock.

 

[gyor]

As long as you bear in mind that viability is not always measured in sheer damage. It's something optimizers seem to have trouble remembering, but in the warlock's case I think it's a hugely important concept. There are many ways for a warlock to excel, and while murder can certainly be one of them, it doesn't have to be.

As a trickster, scoundrel, or social engineer, the warlock can outshine both the bard and rogue if he puts his mind to it. Built correctly, a warlock can out-scout any rogue or ranger. You can even be better at rituals than any other class, including wizards.

Obviously, you can't be the absolute best at all of these at once, but I feel like the warlock has the potential to progress in more different directions than any other class, and be a total ace at it once he picks a path.

He can't out scout the Shadowdancer Monk. At will Teleporting and Invisiblity plus Shadow Arts and other monk goodies. Throw in some rogue for Stealth and thieves tools expertise to take it up another notch.