D&D 5E (2014) Warlocks seem pointless

[Sacrosanct]

Bringing it back on topic, why play a Warlock?

To put it simply, At Will magic is qualitatively different from limited use magic rather than just quantitatively different.

My first 5e character was a human warlock called Nuan (pronounced No-One; yes I was stealing from Odysseus there). At second level he had the Actor talent (giving him Advantage on pretending to be someone else) and the ability to use Disguise Self as an At Will ability meaning he was an absurd quick change artist. He could also simultaneously run a 15ft Silent Image, a 5ft Minor Image, and Prestidigitation while pretending to be someone else to set the scene. At third level he picked up Pact of the Book meaning that he also had Druidcraft and Thaumaturgy. Just for the extra versimilitude. You'd be surprised what illusions suddenly seem much more real when you have Thaumaturgy to create minor earthquakes and are a good enough actor to fake voices of just about anything.

He wasn't a terrible combatant but was a con-man and illusionist first and foremost in a way that no specialist wizard could be at that level (and arguably not at any other). And the Warlock is one of the places where 5e gets things right.

Someone creating an awesome character concept without placing all the importance on DPS? Warms my heart

 

[Sadrik]

The Warlock's power level is too dependent upon the DM and other players in the number of short rests the party takes in a day. So you can be wildly different in power level based on factors you cannot control. The warlock has additional limitations to their spellcasting due to their special* spellcasting method that no one shares. They also do not have a very diverse spell list. Due to these factors, I think they are the weakest of the PHB classes.

Let me point out you can make an interesting character still.

 

[TrippyHippy]

You could argue that a warlock is too dependent on a DM and other players, but only if you look at it from the point of view that they are somehow actively trying to inhibit his effectiveness by any means possible.

 

[Mallus]

You'd be surprised what illusions suddenly seem much more real when you have Thaumaturgy to create minor earthquakes and are a good enough actor to fake voices of just about anything.

Excellent character! You could easily play it as a fantasy version of Ardra, from the ST:TNG episode "Devil's Due", ie a con-artist shaking down people/cultures by pretending to be angry mythological figures from their distant past. I love that episode.

It reminds me of a discussion I had with our DM at our last 5e session. I had the idea of using the telepathy granted by the Great Old One in combination with the Actor Feat to trick victims into thinking their own conscience/internal voice was speaking to them. Gaslighting for fun and profit! It's a shame that doesn't really fit my GOO Tome Pact warlock. He's more of a scary librarian than a conman.

To me, the 5e warlock represents a great fusion of flavor/theme & mechanics. Probably D&D's most successful attempt at a staple of fantasy (and horror) fiction, the magician who makes an explicit deal with occult powers.

The warlock I'm playing, Lorem Ispum --nee Ipstein, formerly a research librarian in search of tenure at the Herrenvolk University in Gutenbaden-- is an archetypal Lovecraftian "insatiably curious scholar who read the wrong rare book' and now is in the employ of the Void That Eats the Stars. So a Tome Pact warlock who lugs around his enormous Book of Shadows ("The Index", aka "The Protocols of the Elders of Cthulhu") which contains all the information in the world, which he can occasionally access in the timely manner.

 

[Joe Liker]

(Pact of the Chain is pretty pointless because you can get a familiar by taking the invocation that grants ritual casting).

This is very, very inaccurate. There is a huge difference between being able to spy using only stealth at a maximum range of 100 feet vs. being able to spy invisibly at infinite range.

In fact, higher intelligence and the ability to turn invisible at will make the special chain pact familiars are a million times better at everything you would want a familiar to do.

They can follow more complicated orders, communicate more effectively, and make better decisions than animal familiars.

They are very hard to kill in combat and never need to worry about opportunity attacks, so using them to deliver touch spells is not a suicide mission. (Invis as an action and move adjacent to target on familiar's turn, deliver spell attack as a reaction on master's turn.)

On top of all that, their inherent attacks are actually pretty good against low-level foes -- not something you're going to rely on forever, but a great option when starting out.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I didn't feel like reading 14 pages, so this point may have been brought up already:

Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast + Hex has incredible at-will damage potential. Depending on how you run the numbers*, it can stand near the top end of the DPR range--competing with fighters and other top-tier warriors, and blowing most classes out of the water. All this with minimal investment.

It's actually so strong that some of us prefer to nerf them somewhat (such as only allowing Agonizing Blast to apply to one hit per turn).

That plus the fact that spell slots come back on a short rest makes warlocks more than competitive, assuming you are getting one or two short rests a day.

*If you assume powerful magical weapons and/or optimal feat usage (ie, fighters with Great Weapon Style and Great Weapon Master, etc) then the warlock will fall behind the "best of the best," but without that, it most definitely is one of the best.

 

[peterka99]

Only 1 person here liked pact of the tome. I find it weaker than the 2 others, since it gives extra cantrips, but no higher level spells. Fine, it gives a full feat for the price of an invocation later, but it is quite weak.

Pact of the Blade synergy is high for a multiclassed PC

Pact of the Chain: for the price of 1 invocation, you get a bunch of scrying spells (with an invisible familiar), like arcane eye, magic mouth , etc


I think we should be allowed to swap a cantrip for an higher level spell later, example: an invocation spell without prerequisites like mage armor, at 6th level as a wild guess (to free an invocation slot). Your comment ?

Pact of the Tome

You can forfeit any one cantrip provided by
the pact and change it for a spell-like invocation
5 levels after minimum prerequisite allows it.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Only 1 person here liked pact of the tome. I find it weaker than the 2 others, since it gives extra cantrips, but no higher level spells. Fine, it gives a full feat for the price of an invocation later, but it is quite weak.

Cantrips? There are good ones on every list. I'm particularly fond of Guidance and Thaumaturgy. The Tome is the pact for tricksters who like exploiting random abilities. And the ritual caster thing is way more than a full feat from memory; if my memory serves me the feat will let you cast any one class' rituals. The Invocation lets you cast all rituals if you can learn them, and this means you can start off with Find Familiar.

 

[gyor]

A Paladin dipping Warlock for a Sprite Familiar can do cool thinks like using magic or elemental weapon spells to enchant her attacks, mantle of the Cruasader to boost her damage and protect her with his Auras.

 

[Mallus]

Only 1 person here liked pact of the tome. I find it weaker than the 2 others, since it gives extra cantrips, but no higher level spells. Fine, it gives a full feat for the price of an invocation later, but it is quite weak.

I think you're undervaluing the cantrips. The bonus cantrips can be from any caster's list but they use CHA as the casting stat. So you get the best cantrips in the game, using (presumably) your best stat. Since 5e cantips scale --ie, are meant to be useful throughout an entire campaign-- they're a good deal.

For example, next level my Tome Pact warlock will get: Vicious Mockery (Bard), Guidance (Cleric), and Thorn Whip (Druid -- with twice the range of party's Druid thanks to the Spell Sniper Feat). That's not too shabby.

The same with the Rituals you can get from the Invocation. I believe it's 2 from any caster's list, plus the ability to learn any others going forward.

Tome Pact is the way to make a Warlock utility caster. And they aren't as Feat-dependent as Blade Pact warlocks. Their one downside is they aren't really flexible in their combat role.