Warlord Homebrew Collaboration (+) (Create a 5e Warlord)

[doctorbadwolf]

Please, just clearly state those goals in the title and OP.

We are not changing the title. The end.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Tony Vargas]

These threads depend on the good-will of others to work

And, more importantly, on the good will of those starting & managing them.

INSTRUCTIONS- PLEASE READ.
This is a "+" thread. That means that this thread is only for positive contributions about the Warlord. The purpose of this thread is to crowdsource a Warlord...

Marshal

The Marshal
.

The OP is responsible for making edits on this page, but doctorbadwolf is going to be the moderator and "caller" of the thread; he will determine when a consensus is reached as to a class feature.

Post 10, before the thread was even moved to this forum:

@lowkey13 final: change class name (but not thread title) to “Marshal”

No discussion, no consensus. The reasons for changing the name of the Warlord are among the most intensely negative.

We are not changing the title. The end.

Then comply with the title.

Because, seriously, a [+] discussion of the 5e Warlord cannot include changing the name, the arguments for which are intensely negative. Just for starters.

Change the title, or change the name.
Change the stated goal or change the template to one that has a chance of delivering.

As you refuse to keep your own + thread positive and instead found it in negativity and set it up to fail from the beginning, I can only count it to have already failed, and cannot in good conscience continue de-facto endorsing it with my participation.

 

[Umbran]

Until you do, I can only count this thread to have already failed, and indeed, to have been intended to fail from it's inception, and see no point in de-facto endorsing it with my participation.

Mod Note:
Okay. Then you will not be participating - I'm instituting a thread-ban to support you in your decision.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Okay!

Level 1:

Gambits. You gain a Gambit Die that starts at 1d4, and increases as you level, as well as the following Gambit. You gain access to more Gambits as you level, as well as from your Archetype.
Marshal’s Gambit. As a bonus action when you take the Attack Action, you can grant an ally a bonus equal to your Gambit Die on their next damage roll with an attack.

Martial Presence. You gain an aura, 15 ft to start, scale same as Unarmored movement from there (5ft more at those levels). It is always on, unless you are incapacitated.
You, and a number of creatures within your Presence equal to your proficiency bonus, gain your choice of a bonus or penalty to Initiative Checks equal to your Gambit Die.

Martial Archetype. At level 1, you choose an Archetype. [each one mainly gives an added benefit to the Presence, and maybe some extra proficiencies if needed]

can we agree on this for now?

@lowkey13 does this feel like it will be easy to use in ToTM, so long as the specific gambits stay within 5e’s normal paradigms?

Okay, I'm gonna try to make a usable draft of all this for you to update the OP with.


Marshal Gambit
Starting at level 1, you gain the ability to lead the attack, focusing allied attacks for greater efficacy.
When you use the attack action to make an attack with a weapon with which you are proficient, or to use an ability that costs Mettle, you can grant an ally who can see and hear you a bonus to their next damage roll or saving throw, before the start of your next turn. This bonus is equal to your Gambit Die, as shown in the Gambit Die section of the Marshal table, and you must choose which benefit the ally gains when you use the ability.
You will gain more Gambits from your Archetype, as well as at later levels in this class.

Martial Archetype
At you level 1, you choose an Archetype from those listed in this document, or from any other source approved by your DM. You gain features from your Archetype at various levels, and it determines a secondary effect of your Presence.

Level 2

Martial Presence
At level 2, you gain the ability to project your presence around you to a radius of 15ft, centered on you. This distance increases as you level, as shown in the Martial Presence section of the Marshal Table. A creature within the aura must be able to see or hear you in order to be affected by it, and your Presence is only active while you are not incapacitated. You, and any 2 creatures of your choice within your Presence, gain your choice of a bonus or penalty to Initiative equal to your Gambit Die.

Mettle
[description incoming]level 2, replaces ki.

@lowkey13 if you don't think I've missed or screwed up anything, go ahead and update this.

Notes: I changed Martial Presence to level 2, where it should have been the first time I suggested it.

Gambit Die should be the same as the Martial Arts Die, for now.

Instead of making it larger to make up for it not being an extra attack, I instead allowed it to also be used to give a saving throw bonus. Most round it will be better to make it a damage bonus, but when a saving throw is really needed, it's there. I feel this is balanced, and just makes things run a little more smoothly. Feel free to keep that part in orange, if you anticipated debate on it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Discussion on Mettle.

Firstly, any objections to the name?

Second, I'd like to mirror ki abilities to some degree, in that I would see tier one just gaining a handful of basic uses. Most archetypes may give level gated uses that cost multiple ki, but the base class shouldn't, so that someone can play a vanguard that is all about team DPR on the simplest level possible, while another can play a Tactician that has a whole 4 elements style suite of distinct abilities at different level gates and prices.

Thirdly, I think a unique thing for the Marshal could be spending ki to replace attacks as part of the attack action. This is a big part of why I am so adamant that Extra Attack is good for the marshal. It's a force multiplier, but with a marshal it's multiplying support, not personal DPR. So, some of these Ki abilities would use an attack rather than a bonus action. This accomplishes two things. First, as I said, it makes EA work to multiply support by allowing more support moves per turn. Second, it lets you still do the basic bread and butter bonus action Gambit.
This way, you can grant attacks, and because you're doing is as part of the attack action, you can also spend your bonus action to give a +dX on that ally's next damage roll.


Does all that make sense to everyone? Any objections or counterarguments? I think it's incredibly elegant, lets the Marshal explode with support without getting "everything monks get and then also full support abilities", lets the marshal be unique in a simple and easy to use way, makes the class easy to learn and satisfying to master, makes them different from any other martial class and any other support class, while hopefully achieving full support class status (without being a reskinned full caster, which IMO would dilute the concept greatly).

 

[Fenris-77]

No, I'm picking up what you're putting down. We can just factor that into our balance equations.

My thought about the actual abilities is to make a list of mechanics that could be affected, then decide which mechanics we want to target, and then start spit balling specific abilities, leveling, and whatnot.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[TwoSix]

Discussion on Mettle.

Firstly, any objections to the name?

Second, I'd like to mirror ki abilities to some degree, in that I would see tier one just gaining a handful of basic uses. Most archetypes may give level gated uses that cost multiple ki, but the base class shouldn't, so that someone can play a vanguard that is all about team DPR on the simplest level possible, while another can play a Tactician that has a whole 4 elements style suite of distinct abilities at different level gates and prices.

Thirdly, I think a unique thing for the Marshal could be spending ki to replace attacks as part of the attack action. This is a big part of why I am so adamant that Extra Attack is good for the marshal. It's a force multiplier, but with a marshal it's multiplying support, not personal DPR. So, some of these Ki abilities would use an attack rather than a bonus action. This accomplishes two things. First, as I said, it makes EA work to multiply support by allowing more support moves per turn. Second, it lets you still do the basic bread and butter bonus action Gambit.
This way, you can grant attacks, and because you're doing is as part of the attack action, you can also spend your bonus action to give a +dX on that ally's next damage roll.


Does all that make sense to everyone? Any objections or counterarguments? I think it's incredibly elegant, lets the Marshal explode with support without getting "everything monks get and then also full support abilities", lets the marshal be unique in a simple and easy to use way, makes the class easy to learn and satisfying to master, makes them different from any other martial class and any other support class, while hopefully achieving full support class status (without being a reskinned full caster, which IMO would dilute the concept greatly).

1). I would definitely rather just a few core uses of ki, rather than an entire menu. Especially since adding additional uses of ki seems an obvious tool for subclass building, just like monk subclasses. My only caveat is trying to avoid an obviously superior use of the points, like the Monk’s stunning strike.

2) I wasn’t clear, but are you proposing sacrificing attacks to always entail a ki point cost, or to receive a boost when the ki point is spent?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Core questions:
1) What amount of attack granting should the class have? Should it be at the class or subclass level? (I personally favor the "Take the attack action, sacrifice an attack to give an ally an extra attack on their turn" rule, but that's obviously an issue that needs to be answered first and foremost.)

I agree, in general.

2) What should the core action cycle look like? I'd lean towards Attack as an action, a utility bonus action (possibly linked to or upgraded by subclass), and then a tactic point expenditure to provide additional power or options to the bonus action. This is the closest analogue to the monk cycle, and still feels sufficiently "warlord-y".

I agree, and that's fairly close to what I have so far. What do you think of my proposed levels 1 and 2, so far? The idea is that at level 2, your mettle abilities would include, an extra attack on the ally's next turn in place of your attack, an extra saving throw with a bonus equal to gambit die, group movement within your PResence, group defense buff, and bonus action to allow an ally to take the Dodge Action? But I'm in very rough first draft territory, there.

3) What are the main stats for the class? Seems like it should be Str/Dex flexible, like most martials, and then maybe a secondary mental stat based on subclass? (Much like the rogue model.)

I thin the main spread is Dex or Strength, and with archetype determining save DC stat.

4) Are warlords proficient in katanas? (Trick question. Katanas are proficient with warlords.)

Stunning reversal! The Warlord is the Katana. Warlords are proficient with Player Characters.


Tactics Points
Starting at 2nd level, your training allows you to harness the mystic energy of ki. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of ki points. Your marshal level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Ki Points column of the Marshal table.
You can spend these points to fuel various ki features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind. You learn more ki features as you gain levels in this class.
When you spend a ki point, it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest, at the end of which you draw all of your expended ki back into yourself. You must spend at least 30 minutes of the rest meditating to regain your ki points.
Some of your ki features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:

(Unspecified name) save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier

I really think we can just rob this, with some changes. Instyead of int mod, let's make it "Archetype Atribute", and name an Archetype feature that? Just so it's super clear where to look for this info.

Delete the meditation bit from regaining ki. Obviously change the list of features once we have a base class list of features.