Was AD&D1 designed for game balance?

[Garmorn]

Recall also the Gygaxian expectation of "10 levels = 5 year's play".


RC

So a campaign was suppose to be balance over the course of 5 years?

I don't think most groups stayed together that long. Typical Gamer starting when 14. Fours yeas then collage, jobs and adult hood. Collage max 4 years before jobs, how many people live in the same city for more then 4 or 5 years?

Of course Gygax had know information except his own games to base any thing off. There was I time period where I moved or changed groups because of other people moving once every year and a half. How as Gary to know this was common to a large segment of the gaming community that is military?

The change in length of campaign is driven to some extend by our culture and economics.

Now some of you can do 2+ year campaigns. For you a new game or a rewritten 1DD type game would work. For lots of us it won't.

 

[Bullgrit]

Recall also the Gygaxian expectation of "10 levels = 5 year's play".

Untrue. Gygax said, in this forum, in a thread that you participated in, that 10th level in 1 year was proper and expected.

Bullgrit

 

[Raven Crowking]

So a campaign was suppose to be balance over the course of 5 years?

Over the course of play, over the short haul, and over the long haul.

Untrue. Gygax said, in this forum, in a thread that you participated in, that 10th level in 1 year was proper and expected.

Bullgrit

You misquote the gentleman.

He said that a good player could be expected to reach 10th level in about a year's play, assuming no setbacks. In The Strategic Review, he goes into detail about the highest levels reached in the then-longest-running campaigns.


RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Untrue. Gygax said, in this forum, in a thread that you participated in, that 10th level in 1 year was proper and expected.

Bullgrit

Okay, just to be specific:

Gygax said

It is reasonable to calculate that if a fair player takes part in 50 to 75 games in the course of a year he should acquire sufficient experience points to make him about 9th to 11th level, assuming that he manages to survive all that play.

and

As BLACKMOOR is the only campaign with a life of five years, and GREYHAWK with a life of four is the second longest running campaign, the most able adventurers should not yet have attained 20th level except in the two named campaigns. To my certain knowledge no player in either BLACKMOOR or GREYHAWK has risen above 14th level.

You may assume, if you like, that the Gygaxian assumption is "5 years = 14 levels", but this is Gygax's epitome of play, not his average.

Very different from "proper and expected".



Of course, then, if memory serves, you still hold that all the treasure in modules is expected to be found, despite the quote to the contrary in B1?




RC

 

[ExploderWizard]

Of course, then, if memory serves, you still hold that all the treasure in modules is expected to be found, despite the quote to the contrary in B1?




RC

I think that all treasure in modules is expected to be found. Notice that this is different from asserting that all treasure should be handed out. Found indicates some searching and effort on the part of the players. I therefore expect treasure seeking adventurers to find that which is hidden.

Lets not forget that finding the treasure isn't the same as getting it home either.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I think that all treasure in modules is expected to be found.

[A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.

- Module B1, Page 24

 

[ExploderWizard]

[A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.

- Module B1, Page 24

I prefer can have and improbable. A certainty of not finding something is almost as bad as a guarantee of finding it. Gameplay hits the middle with varying degrees of probability.

 

[Bullgrit]

Originally Posted by Gary Gygax, the Strategic Review Issue 2.2, page 23

That was about OD&D -- 1975 = 3 years before AD&D1. This thread is specifically about AD&D1.

Of course, then, if memory serves, you still hold that all the treasure in modules is expected to be found, despite the quote to the contrary in B1?

I've never said any such thing. And not only is this little side comment untrue, it is, again, not related to AD&D1, anyway. (B1 is for BD&D.)

Your tenacious defense of your theories is impressive, but your methods are . . . bad.

Bullgrit

 

[Raven Crowking]

That was about OD&D -- 1975 = 3 years before AD&D1. This thread is specifically about AD&D1.

I know. And, about 1e, his primary message was (according to the man himself) "The party is over." AD&D was meant to slow progression, not to speed it up.


RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Your tenacious defense of your theories is impressive, but your methods are . . . bad.

I suppose that little bit of ad hominem was easier than coming up with a coherent argument.