Was I unfair?

[Particle_Man]

Hey it fits the horror movie trope that the fake "party" dies in the first five minutes to show how nasty the bad things are, and then the *real* party is introduced.

At least that is how it occured in my first Deadlands game.

 

[Crothian]

So I ask you, was I unfair?

No, but at the same time you for some reason didn't expect them to go in the sewers. I find that unrealisitc. In D&D, you go in the sewers for adventure. In horror, you go in the sewers and maybe lose a few people as you run for your lives. But in either case you go into the sewers.

 

[jdrakeh]

I don't understand your assertion about the party makeup. I see nothing wrong with that party.

Ditto. It's a perfectly valid party from the point of composition, unless of course by "worst" the OP means "not mechanically optimized to kick ass". Sure, it's not that, but it seems to be a perfectly fine party, thematically speaking.

 

[thatdarnedbob]

How did the paladin die if he was shopping? That seems very unfair.

 

[icedrake]

I think the convension of a hole in the ground screams for players to enter it. Classic DnD move, yes, they likely should have done some investigation before entering the hole, but how did you open the game? Did the violent deaths and the hole appear at the beginning of the session or in the middle? If you had the PCs see the hole right at the start of the adventure, they're going to head down into it. Its literally a plot hole they're jumping down into. By all the classic signs of fantasy adventure, they should be talking to the guard who depudized them and head down there to see what was going on.

Instead of trying to investigate a crime in progess, you should have had them start off with a crime scene a few hours or days old they would search and then find clues to the murderer's identity. If you want a game centered on investigation, start off with it.

 

[tylermalan]

Grimwell - thanks. That's what's up.

Sniffles - I'm going to assume sarcasm, because I have to to stay sane.

Driddle - dang! I knew I used the wrong voice!

ValhallaGH - I was about to say "but I said its HORROR! HORRORRRR!!" but then I kept reading. As far as the CR 3 Giant, I don't know, its in Monsters of Faerun alongside another Giant that's way higher CR than that, and the template only adds a +1 to the CR. The only thing its really got without the template is reach, albeit LOTS of reach.

The Thayan Menace - True... I'm sticking to my story!

Ok let's see, Aus Snow... - I guess I ask if I was unfair because they weren't really complaining, but I could tell they wanted to. I guess they're not really used to consequences? I'll give up the backstories on my next post. Geez, they're terrible...

 

[Rystil Arden]

Grimwell - thanks. That's what's up.

Sniffles - I'm going to assume sarcasm, because I have to to stay sane.

Driddle - dang! I knew I used the wrong voice!

ValhallaGH - I was about to say "but I said its HORROR! HORRORRRR!!" but then I kept reading. As far as the CR 3 Giant, I don't know, its in Monsters of Faerun alongside another Giant that's way higher CR than that, and the template only adds a +1 to the CR. The only thing its really got without the template is reach, albeit LOTS of reach.

The Thayan Menace - True... I'm sticking to my story!

Ok let's see, Aus Snow... - I guess I ask if I was unfair because they weren't really complaining, but I could tell they wanted to. I guess they're not really used to consequences? I'll give up the backstories on my next post. Geez, they're terrible...

A fully-prepared group of four third level adventurers who have not yet spent any resources on combat in a day and are reasonably convinced that they can blow everything on one fight should, in general, cream a CR 4 encounter like it was nothing--even Mialee, Tordek, Lidda, and Jozan, who all were purposefully underpowered for their level. That said, every combination of PCs and opponents is different, and these PCs did not look like the strongest ones ever seen, admittedly.

 

[Felix]

1. I don't understand your problem with the party make-up; you have a combat cleric, a sorcerer with skillpoints and an ability to use Cure wands, a gish, and a paladin.

Considering how you labeled that the superlative "Worst. Party. Ever." on the merits of the class combinations alone, I have to view this:

I won’t even mention the horrible backstories.​

With some skepticisim.

2.

Dangerous, anyone?

THEY GO DOWN INTO THE SEWER! What?!

Isn't adventuring dangerous? So what's suprising about PCs doing something dangerous?

3.

instead of asking the leader of volunteer security for advice when he OFFERED

This sounds like you wanted them to ask you what they should do. IE, you wanted them to do what you think they should have done.

4.

this thing in the sewer is a Phaerlin Giant from Monsters of Faerun with the Hooded Pupil temple from Libris Mortis added to it. They are all level 3, this thing is CR 4.

CRs are static, but EL's are not; if a CR creature fights the PCs in an environment higly beneficial to the creature, then the EL is not equal to the CR, but rather higher than the CR.

I'm not suggesting that it's unfair to throw a high EL at the party, just that you should know that you're doing it. I feel that a burrowing creature encountered in an underground environment may very well rate this; I suspect a large, burrowing giant with a template represents more than an EL 4, and likely more than a CR 4.

5.

I wanted them to know where it probably was (the sewer) so that when they got powerful enough and tired of the attacks, they could go get it, or try.

I would like to say that the players will never know when they reach the, "we can survive this encounter" threshold, and expecting them to wait until they reach it is unrealistic.

---

Nothing you did in particular was unfair; you had a challenge lined up for them and they went after it early, and were killed. But your tone had something of a, "they weren't playing correctly" element, which can be troublesome in a DM. Remember that you have much more information than they do, and so their decisions can seem foolish when you look at it with the benefit of knowledge.

 

[Crothian]

I guess I ask if I was unfair because they weren't really complaining, but I could tell they wanted to. I guess they're not really used to consequences?

What consequances? My only guess is that you feel that since they didn't read the subtle clues to not go into the sewers you feel death is the consequances of that. It almost seems to me that you introduced an enemy you knew they couldn't defeat (but they didn't know this) and are shocked becasue they did what practically any gamer would do: they went towards the danger.

 

[tylermalan]

Dang! Tough crowd! Or is it...?

Anyway, its not that I don't LIKE the characters or their backstories, its that the backstories are not what I would consider "good writing" - they're tired, old, cliche, make little sense, and give little to no vision on what that character is really all about. As for the characters themselves, the classes aren't optimized, but that's not what I think makes them bad - its the fact that they seem to be perfectly NOT optimized. The spellcasting classes, for instance, have a second class added that not only doesn't compliment (except maybe the cleric/barbarian), but it also prevents them from getting 2nd level spells. Add that to the fact that the backstories don't even really explain the reasons for the multiclass, and you get a party of lifeless, poorly thought out adventurers with no common sense.

As for the paladin, the players refused to wait for him while he shopped for supplies, and went in alone without him. They all died, and since he didn't know they were dead, he went in to look for them and subsequently died.

The bard/sorcerer took the bard class for the perform skill, so he could more accurately hurl insults. Terrible.

No, the monster is CR 3 without the template, and CR 4 with.

Lastly, I DID expect them to WANT to go in the sewer, but I personally want to skydive, though I'm not going to do it without a parachute, because I'm not stupid. I wanted to give them the freedom to go in the sewer if that's what they decided, but I also thought I made it clear that maybe that's not a good idea. Severed limbs clutching sheathed weapons? Not exactly a sign that their foe is easily dispatched. On top of that, the guy that appointed them told them "That thing is probably dangerous, so watch out, since it might come for you." This all happened in the beginning.