Was I wrong?

Guardsmith

Explorer
Hello all,

FYI, this is my first time doing something like (by that I mean posting here to get people’s opinions), so please gentle with me.

After a recent TPK, my group (3 players and me, the DM) contemplated what we wanted to do next. One player found the Justiciar of Tyr (FR god of justice and such) and wanted to try it. After doing some research, I found that Tyr and his church often work alongside two other churches, those of Torm (god of duty and loyalty) and Ilmater (god of endurance and martyrdom). So, I thought “three gods, three characters, this could fit nicely” and said this to the players regarding characters:

“… the characters would need to be members
of the churches of the gods in question. Ideally,
since there are three gods and three PCs it
would be nice if we could get one from each.

Obviously, the best characters would be clerics
and paladins, but convincing cases could be made
for other classes. For example, all three deities
have knightly orders associated with them, which
might include fighters and similar classes, and
Ilmater even has a sect of monks known the Broken
Ones.”


With Player 1’s character already chosen, player 2 wanted to give the new Knight class (from PHB2) a whirl, and we thought that Torm would be a natural choice.

Player 3, left with Ilmater and who had mentioned wanting to play a monk in the past, instead chose … a spiked chain fighter. As you might guess, I was a bit surprised, but that was just the beginning; he wanted to use the rogue variant class, from Unearthed Arcana, that exchanged the rogue’s sneak attacks for a fighter’s bonus feats. Then he also wanted to take the Jotunbrud feat from Races of Faerun, which made him seven feet tall and be considered a size large creature whenever it would be to his advantage. Needless to say, he makes a hell of a chain fighter, with a staggering +21 to chance to disarm (weapon finesse feat, two handed weapon bonus on disarm and a couple of others that I forget at the moment).

Well, I hemmed and I hawed, and tried to let him know that I didn't think this really fit with my idea of a servant of Ilmater or the campaign. Then he hemmed and hawed, and said some stuff about trying to play-up a "reckless martyr" type and this being the character he wanted to play. In the end, however, I let him keep it, mainly because I’d been called “too controlling” a DM in the past (when I questioned a couple things in one of Player 1’s earlier character’s background), but it still makes me uncomfortable and I don't think it fits.

So, my question to you guys is this … given the situation, would I have been a cruel and heartless DM to tell him that he couldn’t play this character, or would that be stifling a player’s freedom to play the kind of character they want to play?

Once again, I’m new to asking for other opinions like this, so please be gentle. :)
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I don't know. Do you allow all the listed sourcebooks in your normal games? If so, then allowing it would probably be the best. The player in question at least made a bit of effort in justifying his decision to play that one character.

But, I've never tried to hem in the players' choices of characters or backgrounds, so I can't speak to that concept very well.
 

Wow, he minned, and he maxed. It's like Twister. He put his right hand on the players handbook, left hand on the Unearthed Arcana, and was just barely able to reach the Races of Faerun with this big toe! He should trade his gall bladder for two more arms.

I don't think it's too controlling to keep a handle on the rules being used in the game. I guess one way to find out is to play it and see what happens. Sometimes it takes a disaster or two to give you the confidence to brush off player guilt trips.
 

Crazed flagellants are *totally* within Ilmater's purview. Just impose a no-armor restriction :)

Regarding your question, I think a bit of player choice and creativity is a good thing. But the decision fundamentally goes to you. It's your sacred responsibility as a GM to prevent any Half-Dragon Celestial Tiefling Archon Genasi Vampire Auromvoraxes from being PCs. You're the one who's got to see whether something fits into the campaign or not. So I guess my answer is that if you really feel strongly about it, then go ahead and restrict rapidly; but if you can live with it, try to.
 


What caused the TPK? What was the original party mix? Maybe the player had that fresh on his mind and felt the only way to survive was a semi-gigantic chain wielding brute.
 

dshighlands said:
Player 3, left with Ilmater and who had mentioned wanting to play a monk in the past, instead chose … a spiked chain fighter. As you might guess, I was a bit surprised, but that was just the beginning; he wanted to use the rogue variant class, from Unearthed Arcana, that exchanged the rogue’s sneak attacks for a fighter’s bonus feats. Then he also wanted to take the Jotunbrud feat from Races of Faerun, which made him seven feet tall and be considered a size large creature whenever it would be to his advantage. Needless to say, he makes a hell of a chain fighter, with a staggering +21 to chance to disarm (weapon finesse feat, two handed weapon bonus on disarm and a couple of others that I forget at the moment).

This guy does not want to play a servant of Ilmater. He wants to play a a chain fighter. He's not going to change his mind. So you're going to have to decide how you feel about that. But make no mistake this dude has made his decision. It may not be a concious one, but he's made it nonetheless.


Suggestions:

- Don't let him be a size Large. Nix the Jotunbrud feat. Give him a +1 CON in exchange and call it a special feat because he's dedicated to Ilmater or whatever.
- Make the offer of having him give up light armor in exchange for the Dodge feat. House rule that Dodge gives a blanket +1 AC to all opponents. This is a serious offer, he doesn't have to take it. But it plays more into Ilmater if he doesn't have armor.
- Have lots of melee encounters for him to use his abilities. It isn't fair if he takes this character and suddenly all opponents attack with ranged weapons or are oozes.

He's still going to be a combat monster, that's fine because it's what he very obviously wants to play. But you've taken away a little of the crazy and tied it into the background that you have chosen for your game.

That said, there's a lot of ways to beat a spiked chain guy. Just make sure to let him shine during some of the encounters or it won't be any fun for him.
 

Don't be afraid to take control.

Your job is not to be fair, you job is to make the game fun, and that includes you having fun let him play it if it is a problem then don't be afraid to take control.

You have the choice of nixing the feat, but that is your choice.

I have always been of the opinion that you do not control a players actions you control the outcome of a players choices.

Yet you control the enviorment that he uses his uber spiked chain in take advantage of that.
-sunder, sunder, sunder: end problem spiked chain, have a big strong monster break it.
-disarm +21: you can't disarm natural attacks.
- good for goose, good for gander: give him a nemisis from the church of bloody war (i fortget that god) who is Large and uses a huge spiked chain (and give him a feat that lets him act as huge)
-Exotic weapon: magical spiked chains should be rare so damage reduction becomes more powerful.
-I love you not your character: don't save his character if he gets in over his head, let him die, when he dies have him soul bound or eaten by a barghest or something (I am not saying kill him on purpose but the first time he makes a mistake exploit it and let him die)


P.S.
Weapon finesse, I don't recall the spiked chain being a light weapon? (but I could be wrong I am at work)
 

Here's a good rule of thumb: as soon as you here the words 'spiked chain' come out of a players mouth, just say no. It's not going to get any better.

Spiked chains are the new katana.
 

Qwillion said:
P.S.
Weapon finesse, I don't recall the spiked chain being a light weapon? (but I could be wrong I am at work)
The spiked chain is one of a handful of weapons that are not light but can be finessed (the rapier is another).

Personally I'm of the opinion that allowing players to cherry-pick feats & spells from every supplement under the sun is going to cause problems, unless ALL of your players do it (and unless you do the same for the NPCs, depending on how challenging a game you want to run). Make it clear that anything that's not in the PHB is optional and subject to DM approval. And don't be afraid to say "no", or to mess around with something that you think is going to be problematic.

Beyond that, there seems to be a disconnect between your expectations and those of the players. Before starting a new campaign you all should sit down and discuss what you all would like to see in the campaign, and try to work towards some common ground.
 

Remove ads

Top