Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I think this person mostly just wants to talk about their ideas with someone; these questions feel less like things they want answers to and more like invitations to discussion.
D&D General Was the court Wizard right to Polymorph The heir from A Teenager into A Baby because she knew the villain would kill A Teenager but not A Baby?
- Thread starter JMISBEST
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I initially forgot to mention that by Polymorphing The 14 year old princess into A 5 month old baby The Court Wizard knew that she would be spared, for now, and hopefully the invading king could be persuaded that rather then kill her on her 5th birthday that he should give the girl that by now is almost 5 a chance to prove that she either is or will become good
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
The morality of trapping a nearly adult person in the body of an infant seems a bit dubious. It's more like the kind of thing you would do to your enemies, stealing away their agency and ability to take care of themselves.
I agree that the morality of trapping a nearly adult person in the body of an infant seems a bit dubious. It's more like the kind of thing you would do to your enemies, stealing away their agency and ability to take care of themselves
But when doing so is the only way to prevent her enemies killing her on sight and it may even buy her families allies enough time to persuade her families enemies, and depending on the type of people her relations were her families enemies might be the good guys, but being the good guys in a war doesn't mean that that her families enemies are of Good Alignment, that she shouldn't be killed on her 5th birthday, rather she should be given a chance to proof that she's nothing like her family, which means that she deserves to be spared should be okay?. right?
But when doing so is the only way to prevent her enemies killing her on sight and it may even buy her families allies enough time to persuade her families enemies, and depending on the type of people her relations were her families enemies might be the good guys, but being the good guys in a war doesn't mean that that her families enemies are of Good Alignment, that she shouldn't be killed on her 5th birthday, rather she should be given a chance to proof that she's nothing like her family, which means that she deserves to be spared should be okay?. right?
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
I mean, ultimately, you are the arbiter of whether or not the plan succeeds. I could see a few "buts" "ifs" and "whens" along the way myself. I wonder if the following scenarios would have been easier:
1) hide the girl somewhere. Polymorph can still be useful in this instance to disguise her identity.
1b) you could even disguise someone else as the girl in this case- bonus points if you polymorph the most badass warrior you can find into a 14 year old girl- wouldn't that be a surprise for a would-be assassin?
I had a few more, but they require other spells, and you did say that, for whatever reason, the caster lacked other spells to use.
When discussing morality in D&D there are two kinds of morality to consider. Real world morality, where ends can justify the means, and the "cosmic" morality of the Outer Planes, where Good is Good and Evil is Evil and the ends never justify the means.
Performing a potentially Evil act for a Good cause is still Evil to the Gods and powerful entities of the Planes, because that's how the D&D multiverse functions. Good, Chaos, Law, and Evil are cosmic forces unto themselves that can't be argued with, reasoned with, or accept compromise. They are and that's all one can really say about it.
If armed with a scroll of Polymorph and I needed to prevent the girl from death, I could certainly justify doing something horrible to her in the short term if it led to an ultimately Good act- like turning her into a stone statue and stashing her someplace until it was safe to reveal her existence to the world.
But in the eyes of the Gods, I still did an Evil thing, and will pay the price for that down the road.
1) hide the girl somewhere. Polymorph can still be useful in this instance to disguise her identity.
1b) you could even disguise someone else as the girl in this case- bonus points if you polymorph the most badass warrior you can find into a 14 year old girl- wouldn't that be a surprise for a would-be assassin?
I had a few more, but they require other spells, and you did say that, for whatever reason, the caster lacked other spells to use.
When discussing morality in D&D there are two kinds of morality to consider. Real world morality, where ends can justify the means, and the "cosmic" morality of the Outer Planes, where Good is Good and Evil is Evil and the ends never justify the means.
Performing a potentially Evil act for a Good cause is still Evil to the Gods and powerful entities of the Planes, because that's how the D&D multiverse functions. Good, Chaos, Law, and Evil are cosmic forces unto themselves that can't be argued with, reasoned with, or accept compromise. They are and that's all one can really say about it.
If armed with a scroll of Polymorph and I needed to prevent the girl from death, I could certainly justify doing something horrible to her in the short term if it led to an ultimately Good act- like turning her into a stone statue and stashing her someplace until it was safe to reveal her existence to the world.
But in the eyes of the Gods, I still did an Evil thing, and will pay the price for that down the road.
Falls under "Lesser of two evils" for me. Polymorphing someone into a dramatically less intelligent form is pretty dubious, but doing it to save them from being murdered could be sufficient reason to justify it. Of course, if the villain is willing to wait an hour, or (if the spell is permanent) arrange for the magic to be dispelled, then things go back to being spicy. But that's just plot, and somewhat hilarious if the wizard did it in the heat of the moment in a "You wouldn't hit someone with glasses?" kinda way.
I also imagine the Villain gently trying to reduce the baby to 0 HP in the least painful way possible, to break the Polymorph. That would be a very weird and interesting scene!
In any case, the overall idea is pretty mythical. There are many stories of being being transformed into animals and other such things to escape punishment or danger (just like there are many stories of being transformed into animals AS punishment.)
I also imagine the Villain gently trying to reduce the baby to 0 HP in the least painful way possible, to break the Polymorph. That would be a very weird and interesting scene!
In any case, the overall idea is pretty mythical. There are many stories of being being transformed into animals and other such things to escape punishment or danger (just like there are many stories of being transformed into animals AS punishment.)
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
You run villains differently than I do. If the no-goodnick will kill a 14 year old heir, they'll kill a baby heir. Either they're removing an heir who is otherwise innocent (which is the case if I understand) or they're eliminating an individual for some other reason.
If they're eliminating an heir, the heir's age is irrelevant. If they're eliminating an individual, the baby is still that individual no matter what their apparent physical age is. If the baby retains the mentality of the 14 year old, the bad guy isn't really killing a baby regardless of the physical form. If the baby does not retain the mentality of the 14 year old, the court wizard already effectively killed them.
In any case, I wouldn't allow polymorph to do this. If you can recreate someone in a different physical form, is the new form still the heir? Are they still they heir if they have the mentality of a baby? If the bad guy (tm) won't kill the baby they can always just ship them off to be raised on a farm somewhere so nothing was really gained.
If they're eliminating an heir, the heir's age is irrelevant. If they're eliminating an individual, the baby is still that individual no matter what their apparent physical age is. If the baby retains the mentality of the 14 year old, the bad guy isn't really killing a baby regardless of the physical form. If the baby does not retain the mentality of the 14 year old, the court wizard already effectively killed them.
In any case, I wouldn't allow polymorph to do this. If you can recreate someone in a different physical form, is the new form still the heir? Are they still they heir if they have the mentality of a baby? If the bad guy (tm) won't kill the baby they can always just ship them off to be raised on a farm somewhere so nothing was really gained.
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