Ways to earn xp?

[Quasqueton]

What do you think of this way of awarding xp:

Say the PCs need to get into the dungeon, past 40 badguys, and get the mcguffin.

1) The PCs slaughter all 40 badguys and get the mcguffin - I think most DMs would award xp for all 40 badguys.

2) The PCs sneak past the 40 badguys and get the mcguffin and get out without actually engaging in combat - Do you give xp for all 40 badguys?

3) The PCs approach the 40 badguys peacefully, get taken before the leader and negotiate their entrance and exit from the dungeon without conflict - Do you give xp for all 40 badguys?

4) The PCs ambush a couple of small patrols and spook/intimidate the other badguys into abandoning their place around and in the dungeon - Do you give xp for all 40 badguys?

5) The PCs pretend to be leader-types for the badguys, and they bluff them into going elsewhere, leaving the PCs free to get the mcguffin - Do you give xp for all 40 badguys?

6) The PCs hire a sapping crew, find a spot out of sight and sound of the badguys, and over a couple weeks dig their way into the dungeon. They get the mcguffin and leave the area without ever engaging the badguys at all - Do you give xp for all 40 badguys?

7) The PCs seal off the badguy's lair (cave in or wall of stone or something), and then get the mcguffin with no interference - Do you give xp for all 40 badguys?

In some of the cases above, the PCs may have only really dealt with the leaders of the badguys. In others they acted to actually avoid all the badguys.

Quasqueton

 

[Henry]

In all cases except #3, I'd answer yes. They still overcame the challenge of the place. The only time I wouldn't award it is just walking up and saying "take me to your leader." In this case, I'd award it for getting the item, and for negotiation with the leaders, but that's it.

 

[Doug McCrae]

1: Lots of xp plus story award for recovering the mcguffin.
4: Small amount of xp plus story award for recovering the mcguffin.
The rest: Story award plus they get called pussies.

 

[DaveMage]

In all cases except #3, I'd answer yes. They still overcame the challenge of the place. The only time I wouldn't award it is just walking up and saying "take me to your leader." In this case, I'd award it for getting the item, and for negotiation with the leaders, but that's it.

I want you to be my next DM.

 

[FireLance]

I'm going to address the meta-question here and state that the crux of the issue is really adventure design.

While some DMs do not like to think of adventures in terms of "how much XP should the PCs earn in this adventure?", I do, and I design my adventures with the idea that I will give out X amount of XP to the PCs. However, I also make sure that the PCs earn the XP they get.

Remember, as the DM, you are in charge of the challenges and you can increase them, reduce them, or make them up on the fly if you need to.

Let's say combat with all 40 of your bad guys would have given the PCs 10000 xp. Let's say they come up with a brilliant idea which you think is worth 5000 xp (digging into the dungeon, say). Why should digging prove smooth sailing? Perhaps they dig into a nest of ankhegs which they have to defeat (earning 5000 xp in the process).

Let's say they come up with an idea that you feel is good, but worth only 2000 xp (say, negotiating with the leaders, or spooking the bad guys, or bluffing them). You can still place challenges in their way to earn the remaining 8000 xp. Perhaps some of the bad guys aren't as loyal, or timid, or trusting, as the others and remained behind to guard the McGuffin. Perhaps the bad guys left traps or guard animals to defend the McGuffin.

In short, one of the hallmarks of good adventure design, in my view, is that the PCs can acheive their objectives in many ways, but each way should be equally challenging (though individual parties may find certain approaches to be easier than others, depending on party composition). That way, the DM and players will feel that they have earned their XP fairly.

 

[FireLance]

Just as a follow-up post. When designing adventures, it is good to consider how a combat-oriented party, a persuasion-oriented party (including the sub-orientations of diplomacy, intimidation and trickery), a stealth-oriented party and a puzzle-oriented party will approach the situation. Then, think of how each approach can be made challenging. Even if you know your players well, and know how they are likely to react in any given situation, it is good to give some thought to the alternatives just in case they happen to take a non-standard approach.

 

[Arnwyn]

For me and my group: "Not quite" to all of the above, with conditions.

I would unlikely give XP for all 40 bad guys unless the PCs did actually combat all of them - this is the only time there would be a (hypothetically) high/likely chance of character death. For my particular group, I'm willing to reward a bit more for that. Risk vs. Reward + fun and all that...

Otherwise, though, IMC they would get relatively the same XP no matter which option they chose (and it would be close to XP for the 40 bad guys).

In the end, though, what I reward is all circumstantial and situational - I agree with what FireLance says, above.

 

[francisca]

I agree with Firelance, and I'm going to pull the focus back even further for a broader view.

What are the expectations of the campaign? Is it a hackfest? I mean, is the goal of the game the classic, "Go to exotic places, meet interesting people and creatures, then kill 'em and take their stuff!", or do you put more emphasis on the roleplaying aspect? Certainly this could vary from adventure to adventure, but most groups have some mixture of the two, in varying amounts.

If the goal of the adventure, and overall feel of the campaign, is to gain the mcguffin-a-mob or whatever tonight's quest is, then yes, they should get full XP. If the goal of the session was to kick ass and pillage the dungeons -- and oh by the way, get the mcguffin -- then no. (that's called a pretext, BTW).

Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

[shilsen]

I just give XP for playing the game, so my answer to all of the listed situations would be "Yes". Of course, my system also means that they get the same amount of XP whether it was 40 bad guys, 4 bad guys, or 1 bad guy and 12 nice guys having a bad day.

 

[Quasqueton]

I would give xp for the full 40 badguys regardless of how they "overcame" them, so long as the PCs did it within their characters style/personality.

Several adventures back, the PCs in my campaign got into the dungeon, around some lizardfolk living around it by using diplomacy. They made the lizardfolk their friends, and they negotiated an agreement with the tribal chief and shaman. I gave full xp for the lizardfolk tribe. --- Those PCs were generally more sociable, peaceful, and diplomatic than most adventurers. (Although there was plenty of fighting outside the lizardfolk tribe.)

Just recently, the PCs drove off a tribe of goblins by basically assassinating the chief and shaman and leaving threatening warnings to the rest of the tribe. The tribe cut their losses and vacated the dungeon. The PCs got full xp for that. --- These PCs are more stealthy and "light of presence" than most adventurers. (And again, there was plenty of fighting besides the assassination attack.)

A more aggressive, violent, and/or tough (by design) party of adventurers might have fought both the lizardfolk and the goblins and completed the adventure through killing them off. That's always an option.

If a DM only awards xp for violent aggression against NPCs and monsters, then that's the only PCs he'll see in his campaigns.

Quasqueton