Ways to stop a powergamer

[Thanee]

Yeah, that is a big difference... creating a character at 20th level and playing one up to 20th level.

Especially, if you allowed him to buy magic items appropriate for his level, while the others had to take what they found (as you said). This might also make up for some difference.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Halivar]

A solution might be, unless your group is very competetive towards each other, to have them actually help each other out with character creation

This tack works great. In a recent campaign, I was the damage dealer. Two other characters actually roleplayed sitting down in the middle of a fight with a dragon and having a conversation about splitting the loot, because they knew I was going to kill it.

From then on, I'm the one who twinks out everyone's characters before we begin a new campaign. Upon levelling, they ask me about feat selections, equipment purchases, and such. Ever since then, our fights are no longer one-man shows, because group mates will often dish out just as much damage as me. In addition, the people I play with learn a little bit more about powergaming themselves.

 

[hong]

What Halivar and Thanee said.

If your other players want to shine in combat, then perhaps you and Oscar should help them out in terms of feat and spell choices, tactics, etc. Although this might be difficult if you've already got 20th level characters and not much room left to grow.

Also, items make a huge difference to combat efficiency. Without them, feats like arcane strike and divine might become that much better in relative terms, because they leverage certain classes' innate supernatural abilities. Consider being less stringent on what items people can get, if not in this campaign then in the next.

 

[Psiblade]

Your gear does not change size when polymorphed. This is a inherited limitation from Alter self (first line of poly). A stone giant would be using mis sized weapons (-2 to hit). Also, I think that a stone giant would not fit into a belt made for med/small characters(-6 str.). Other than that, I think that his numbers look fine.

-Psiblade

 

[LostSoul]

Your gear does not change size when polymorphed.

This is from that recent "Rules of the Game: Polymorphing" article on Wizards (Part 3, specifically).

In general, a change from one form that has a humanoid shape to another form that has a humanoid shape leaves all equipment in place and functioning. The subject's equipment changes to match the assumed form. It becomes the appropriate size for the assumed form and it fits the assumed form. The spellcaster can change minor details in your equipment, such as color, surface texture, and decoration.

Here's the full article: Rules of the Game: Polymorphing (Part Three)

 

[res]

Your gear does not change size when polymorphed. This is a inherited limitation from Alter self (first line of poly). A stone giant would be using mis sized weapons (-2 to hit). Also, I think that a stone giant would not fit into a belt made for med/small characters(-6 str.). Other than that, I think that his numbers look fine.

-Psiblade

Magical clothing/armor tends to adjust its size for the wearer. You're right about the Weapon though. But I don't think that the -2 to hit really makes a huge difference.

 

[Impeesa]

Woo, where to begin... first off, I am the sole hardcore powergamer in my group. Among the others, only a few are even aware of most of the rules. Add to that the fact that my favorite kind of build to optimize is the straight-up combat monster, and you get combats in which I do the vast majority of the killing.

As an example, I'm playing a character aiming for frenzied berserker later in a party that's currently playing Speaker in Dreams. He's a monster. Last session consisted almost entirely of the fight resulting from the ambush after the celebration (following the first part of the adventure). The module is designed for 5th-6th level characters, we had two at 4th and three at 6th (including me). The module rates the encounter at EL 12 and claims that the PCs' goal for this scene is basically just to escape with their lives. We slaughtered them almost to the man - only the named grimlock assassin escaped, and even then only because I was just running down on rage and had wounded companions to tend to. I did the vast majority of the killing, at one point dropping the ogre mage and two rogues in a single round with some timely cleaving.

My point here? Despite the fact that I did the vast majority of the killing, I wouldn't have had even a remote shot at soloing that encounter. Alone, I would have been slaughtered. Remember that support and non-combat-oriented characters are just as important in the end.

Since other characters are designed to be combatants though, I've seen another good suggestion here - have him help the other players plan their builds. For that same game, at the very beginning, I put together full 20-level progressions for several players. I did a very nice archer build for a player who was completely new to the game, and he took to it like a duck to water - had he been there for the session I just described, I don't think I would have had quite the huge number of kills that I did.

In the extreme case, just go hang around the Character Optimization board at the WotC site. They'll quickly enlighten you as to just how far the system can be stretched without breaking the rules.

--Impeesa--

 

[FireLance]

Several posters have already made good suggestions on how to contain powergaming, so I'd just like to raise one additional issue: how do your other players feel? If they are fine with it, then I don't see a problem.

In one campaign I'm playing in, I'm pretty much the only powergamer (the other one who has powergaming tendencies is the DM). What I do is play a supporting role most of the time (I'm a Cleric 4/Human Paragon 2) so that everyone has a chance to shine. So, the wizard gets to blast foes with her Fireballs and Magic Missiles, the fighter gets to charge into battle and cleave opponents, and I buff and heal.

Until, of course, the DM throws that one encounter that is just a little too hard to manage, or the BBEG that is just a little too effective. Then, my character steps up and fixes things.

In the last game, for example, the BBEG challenged the party to fight her in single combat, one by one. We buffed the fighter, and he hit her once, but she cut him down in two rounds due to a lucky crit. The DM was playing up her arrogance and overconfidence to the hilt (she was strutting around the duelling arena yelling "Is there anyone else?" as per Achilles in Troy), so it was kind of satisfying when my character stepped forward and slammed her with a spell that did 80 points of force damage, putting her out immediately. Everyone loved it, even the DM .

Anyway, from the descriptions of the other characters, they look fine and it seems as if they get to have their moments of glory, too. If your powergamer isn't spoiling anyone's fun, I don't think you need to restrain him.

 

[billd91]

I take it, from the way you're talking about the campaign, that you want to continue playing at these PC levels. Personally, despite the claims of designers, I think 3E tends to break down more than earlier editions at high levels in the sense that the game becomes kind of a pain in the butt. When we were playing at 16th level, we found the DM can be hard put to challenge the PCs without spending an enormous amount of time crafting appropriate opponents and somehow justifying them within the game world at the same time.
I know that observation of mine won't help much... unless by voicing it, you are able to analyze and assuage your own feelings toward a set of enemies you may have spent a lot of time on only to have them vaporized in much shorter order by a 20th+ level party.
But I digress.
Characters that have evolved compared to characters built and optimized at high level can be very different. But I'm not sure which is necessarily better. The ones that evolved are likely to have more dead-end paths started but not completed as the needs of the campaign shifted than a character built at the highest level. They're also probably less likely to have highly powered gadgets optimized for their own character concepts. They may, however, have some interesting combinations of items that they have simply stumbled on. But I don't think those are likely to be much of a power factor and more of an interesting quirk factor.
I'd have him put together a list of preferred gizmos with a number of alternatives and then have you as DM pick what might actually have been built in your world and then recovered. That might help bring him into line with the rest. I certainly wouldn't allow him to buy whatever he wanted assuming he had a powerful magic item builder at his beck and call.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Dude... you know you don't HAVE to allow every PrC that a Player may want to take. IMHO the first mistake was allowing him to take all those PrCs. You must have known before that he was a powergamer. Make a house rule that any particular PC may only take ONE PrC. That should fix things for you. Too late for this campaign though... you can't gracefully take back what you've already given.