We are losing ambidexterity?

[Mercule]

I know. Funny place to hide that rule.

Given the context, I'm not sure that it's completely unambiguous. I know that the wording seems pretty clear, but it just smacks too much of something that was thrown in as a foot-note to crossbow and not completely thought through.

I'm sure they'll make it much clearer in 3.5 and I can wait until then. Although, if someone happens to know of some official statement in better context, I'm curious.

Of course, even if the above is true, I'll still be house-ruling it because, as I said, it makes more sense to me the other way.

 

[Zhure]

Again, we turn to the equipment section.
"Weapons are grouped into several interlocking sets of categories. These categories pertain to what skill is needed to be proficient in their use (simple, martial, and exotic), usefulness in close combat (melee) or at a distance (ranged, which includes both thrown and projectile), and weapon size (Tiny, Small, Medium-size, and Large)."

And

"Melee and Ranged Weapons: Melee weapons are used for making melee attacks, though some of them can be thrown as well. Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee. Apply a character's Strength bonus to damage dealt by thrown weapons but not to damage dealt by projectile weapons (except for mighty composite shortbows or longbows)."


In simpler terms, disregarding Finesse, if you're using your DEX to h it, it's a ranged weapon. Thrown weapons can be either melee or ranged, but not both simultaneously.

Greg

 

[Mercule]

But a dagger is a melee weapon, not a ranged weapon, even if it is thrown. A throwing Axe is listed under melee (PHB98), not ranged, so I see know reason why a thrown dagger would be considered a ranged weapon. And if it is a melee weapon then it is inclusive under TWF

Man, I love this interprettation. Consider it swiped.

 

[Caliban]

Given the context, I'm not sure that it's completely unambiguous. I know that the wording seems pretty clear, but it just smacks too much of something that was thrown in as a foot-note to crossbow and not completely thought through.

I'm sure they'll make it much clearer in 3.5 and I can wait until then. Although, if someone happens to know of some official statement in better context, I'm curious.

It's in the FAQ I believe.

You can still throw a dagger or axe with your off-hand, it's just that TWF won't reduce the penalties for doing so.

Throwing a dagger with each hand is very different from making a melee attack with a dagger in each hand.

I would recommend creating a new feat for using a pair of ranged weapons, "Dual Shot" or something similiar.

 

[Zhure]

Given the context, I'm not sure that it's completely unambiguous. I know that the wording seems pretty clear, but it just smacks too much of something that was thrown in as a foot-note to crossbow and not completely thought through.

I'm sure they'll make it much clearer in 3.5 and I can wait until then. Although, if someone happens to know of some official statement in better context, I'm curious.

Of course, even if the above is true, I'll still be house-ruling it because, as I said, it makes more sense to me the other way.

It's been clarified by the Sage but I can't locate it in my notes.
I'm sure someone will be along shortly with a direct quote.
Greg

 

[Zhure]

from the FAQ:
"The descriptions for light and heavy crossbows in the Player’s
Handbook say a character can fire one of them with each hand. The hand crossbow description, however, makes no mention of such an action. Is this penalty the same for hand crossbows, or is such an action implicitly prohibited (which seems extremely odd)? Heavy and light crossbows are two-handed weapons that can be fired (but not loaded) with one hand at an extra penalty (–4), provided the wielder is of sufficient size. Firing off a crossbow in each hand is even more difficult (–6 for the primary hand and –10 for the off hand, or –6 for each hand if the shooter has Ambidexterity). The hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon and there is no penalty for using a hand crossbow in one hand. Note that since a hand crossbow is Tiny, a Diminutive creature would need two hands to use it. In such a case, treat one-handed use just like a light crossbow used one-handed. Small or Medium-size characters can fire a hand crossbow from each hand according to the normal rules for attacking with two-weapons, usually the shooter will suffer –4 for the primary hand and –8 for the off hand (–4/–4 with Ambidexterity), see pages 124–125 in the Player’s Handbook. Note that the Two-Weapon Fighting feat is for melee and does not reduce the penalties for using two ranged weapons."

Italics mine.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Actually, my question was more along the lines of "where is he getting those daggers from to attack with in the first place", but then I realized he must have quickdraw, which I believe he's combining with Rapid Shot to become dagger-o-matic. Must carry bandoliers of the things.

The character in question actually used small throwing blades from the Kalamar Players Guide. I cannot remember what they are called. They were smaller than daggers and only did 1D3 damage.

Yes the character in question had quick draw.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Nasty critter: Dwarven Ranger with Quickdraw, PDS, Rapid Shot; carries dwarven waraxe and throwing axes.

Round1: Throws two throwing axes as FRA.
Round2: Switches to two hands on dwarven waraxe; charges.
Round3: Quickdraws throwing axe; goes TWF on opponent.

Rinse, repeat until no bad guys left standing (or out of throwing axes)

 

[AuraSeer]

But a dagger is a melee weapon, not a ranged weapon, even if it is thrown. A throwing Axe is listed under melee (PHB98), not ranged, so I see know reason why a thrown dagger would be considered a ranged weapon.

Now you're just being intentionally obtuse. It's only a melee weapon if you use it in melee. If you make a ranged attack with it, it's a ranged weapon.

Consider that melee attacks use your Strength bonus on the attack roll, while ranged attacks use your Dexterity bonus. A held dagger (melee) uses Str. A thrown dagger (ranged) uses Dex.

 

[Mercule]

Throwing a dagger with each hand is very different from making a melee attack with a dagger in each hand.

I'm willing to buy into that. It's just a lot more similar than firing a bow.