We are losing ambidexterity?

[Stalker0]

"Melee and Ranged Weapons: Melee weapons are used for making melee attacks, though some of them can be thrown as well. Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee. Apply a character's Strength bonus to damage dealt by thrown weapons but not to damage dealt by projectile weapons (except for mighty composite shortbows or longbows)."

Greg

Based on that quote, it looks like daggers are always melee weapons, even when being thrown.

 

[Caliban]

Based on that quote, it looks like daggers are always melee weapons, even when being thrown.

Please use a little common sense, instead of just looking for loopholes.

 

[CCamfield]

Issues of whether or not the rules are suggesting (if not stating outright anywhere) that TWF applies to thrown weapons, do you think it would unbalanced to let it apply?

In my very limited experience, thrown weapons are kind of overlooked and unfavored, so I would rather let TWF apply to them if it will increase their utility a bit.

It would allow for, as an example, the dwarven axe-thrower mentioned earlier, which is pretty cool. Or a rapier-and-dagger fighting duellist, who while fighting someone with his sword, might be able to throw his off-hand dagger to cut a rope or help a friend, etc. These seem to me to be desireable, from a story or character point of view, so if it's not unbalanced it seems a good house rule.

 

[Norfleet]

Don't see why people shouldn't be able to double-throw throwing weapons. Unlike melee TWF, it'd be even easier, since to THROW the weapon, you can just simultaneously launch them from both hands. This requires far less coordination than trying to fight with both weapons at once, which requires that the hands move independently of each other.

It's far easier to do the same thing with both hands at once than it is to do two very different things at once.

 

[Kraedin]

It's quite likely that Two-Weapon Fighting will apply to ranged weapons in 3e revised - it already does in d20 Modern, which also eschews Ambidexterity.

 

[maddman75]

Okay, if you wanted to double throw daggers I'd let you if you took a special feat. I'd probably put a -2 on each attack and call it Rapid Shot.

I don't think its a balance issue but a simplicity one. RS and TWF essentially do the same thing. RS for missile, TWF for melee. No need to go mucking it up.

I'd also argue that throwing a dagger quickly is much closer to firing a bow quickly than attacking with both hands. In either case you have to ready the weapon, aim, and loose/throw, then quickly load a replacement. Much different than attacking with both arms melee.

 

[MarcoDelVespuchi]

If you look at the wording of Two Weapon Fighting, you should note the word 'Wielded'. Wielding a weapon implies a sturdy grip upon said weapon. If the grip is relinquished, you are no longer wielding it. Thus, TWF cannot apply to thrown daggers as you are not wielding them while they are in flight.

As with all things, this truly boils down to DM discretion.

 

[Voadam]

Based on that quote, it looks like daggers are always melee weapons, even when being thrown.

I agree.

It specifically says melee weapons that can be effectively thrown are melee weapons while ranged weapons are only weapons that can not be used effectively in melee combat. Given that definition, daggers, hand axes, and spears seem to be considered melee weapons and not ranged weapons.

Arguing that this is nonsensical is arguing that the rules definitions are poor choices that should be house ruled or errated, not that the statement says that throwing daggers are ranged weapons under the rule quoted above.

 

[drnuncheon]

Or a rapier-and-dagger fighting duellist, who while fighting someone with his sword, might be able to throw his off-hand dagger to cut a rope or help a friend, etc. These seem to me to be desireable, from a story or character point of view, so if it's not unbalanced it seems a good house rule.

Note that two-weapon fighting is not required for this at all.

If your attacks were at (for example) +15/+10/+5, you could:

a) attack with the rapier at +15
b) throw the dagger at +10
c) attack with the rapier again at +5.

You only need to use Two Weapon Fighting if you want an extra attack from your melee weapon.

J

 

[drnuncheon]

Based on that quote, it looks like daggers are always melee weapons, even when being thrown.

So you're saying that a thrown dagger should:

• Use STR bonus to hit
• Not provoke an AoO when thrown
• Be ineligible for Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, and all the other ranged feats
• Only be able to attack within 5 feet (unless the weilder has reach)

Er...right.

J