we can trust the church, can't we?

in your games, to you make extensive use of churches as organizations? what sort of impact have they had on your games?

in our game, every church has an agenda, and fueled by religious zeal, will stop at nothing to see those goals attained. even churches of "good" deities can be quite fearsome.

how does this impact the party?
 

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You do keep posting threads I like. Although I realise I'm answering them in reverse order. :confused:

Anyhoo: churches.

As I mentioned in response to your thread 'thicker than blood' I'm running a campaign with good, law-abiding Stunties with close ties to the community. And of course this means churches. 2 of the PC's are in fact clerics. I've gone so far as to write up a calendar of religious holidays (Gods' days and Saints' days) and have described the public rituals that occur on the God's days. And indeed the rituals are very public, designed to involve the community as a whole with parades and ordinary folk playing important roles in the ceremony. CHurch is one of the things that binds the community.

There is a fly in the ointment. The Church of Abbathor. Offically banned it is nevertheless alive in the kingdom. My main villain is the chief priestess of this god. ALthough after she escapes her current incarceration she is going to be soooooo mad that she is going to go further than Abbathor ever did and side with the Dwarves' enemies.

Not sure how this should effect her standing as a cleric. Technically Abbathor is still part of the official Dwarven pantheon. Only his worship is banned.

My next campaign, (mentioned it in your thieves guild thread) is already in the planning and is going to take a much less benign view of the Church. Basically I'm setting it in a fantasy Hapsburg German Empire with a monotheistic faith. Monotheism but split along confessional lines (Pelorines vs Pholtics) a la Protestants & Catholics during the Reformation. In this campaign the Church (which church depends where you are in the Empire) does indeed defend the moral fibre of the community. ANd they use the timed honoured methods of imprisonment, threat, exile and torture. Burning is only for witches (ie: arcane casters of any type. And druids. And probably rangers.)

Churches are great. A quick perusal of history and you get so many ways in which a church can be run in a game. From the petty Papal empire of the Borgias in Rennaissance Italy to the real empire of Islam. Splits. Heretics. Secret cults within the church. Persecuted martyrs. Persecuting martyrs. Crusades and jihads. Reformation and Counter reformation. Yeah baby! Bring it on!!
 

now that is some good gaming. exactly. and abbathor.... saaaaaaaaasssssy!!!

always thought the concept of abbathor to be quite cool. looking foreward to hearing how things turn out for our lady of vengeful greed.

we make EXTENSIVE use of churches in our campaign. obviously we have clerics and paladins. however, we do not play these characters in a vacuum. they follow doctrine. they follow edict. they follow orders. they follow agendas....

however, we also play churches as organizations that will strike with righteous fury at those who would assail such pillars of the faith.

so go ahead and raid an "evil shrine" or "evil temple"....

oh, and glad you enjoy the threads.
 

First off, I'd like to follow DrunkOnDuty's lead and also tip my hat to funkysnunkulator for his interesting and innovative posts. Little details like this can go a long way towards coloring a game and making it stand out.

I've been writing a series of articles on the gods of Greyhawk at Canonfire that touch on these kinds of questions-schisms within the faith, interaction of the church with outsiders, what is and is not a sin, etc. Far too often, it seems to me, official write-ups of clerics have them doing everything from acting as farmers to judges to playwrights and performers-that is to say, everything BUT what is typically associated with priestly duties: preaching, confessions, exorcisms, blessings, marriages, counselling, communing with higher spirits, etc. They have secular jobs with priestly powers.

A few general notes:

-Very few faiths of any sort are entirely homogenous. Just as it is foolish to depict churches and religious faiths as being entirely homogenous blocs whose members all think and act alike, so too is it wrong to think that all fantasy clerics are on the same page. You don't have to be secular to be an intellectual-theologians like St. Augustine, Peter Abelard, or Thomas Aquinas, or some of the Islamic scholars of the Middle Ages, all made important philosophical and intellectual contributions. Who says fantasy clerics can't do the same?

We all know the various divisions within the Christian faith-Catholic, Protestant, Methodist, etc. But it's also worth noting that Islam has divisions and conflicts of its own, most notably between Sunni and Shi'ite branches of the faith. I don't know as much about Oriental religions, but IIRC there are different traditions of Buddhism-Zen Buddhism versus Taoism, for example. These rivalries are not necessarily hostile-intellectual debate and discussion is a regular feature of the fantasy religions, and they change and evolve with time, just as theology, philosophy, etc. do in real life.

-Not every church has a big political agenda. Some of them do, of course: PC clerics and BBEGs are commonly the most active and outgoing members of the faith. But others, even within the same church, are more interested in giving sermons, officiating at funerals, offering blessings, conducting ceremonies, and the hundred and one other things priests do or have done in the real world, without risking their hides in the wilderness. But, again, not every faith has deep socio-political comments on the world, and their priests don't actively meddle in politics in their day-to-day activities.

-Good and evil aren't always as clear-cut as they seem. Evil temples can openly operate in cities like Niole Dra or Greyhawk, usually staffed by more moderate clerics who are more concerned with acting in their deity's areas of concern than hatching evil plans to destroy the city. A priest might be of Chaotic Evil alignment, but that doesn't mean he's a moustache-twirling villain out to destroy the PCs; rather, he adheres to a sect that doesn't actively preach destruction and depravity.

His personal beliefs might be those of a nihilist, who believes laws to be worthless creations of humanity that will rot and die along with the people who created them, but he doesn't go out of his way to break them, either. More interested in fulfilling his religious duties than in making a political point, he simply flips off the city watch behind their backs on his way to the market to buy food for the beggars who come to his sermons of death, gloom and misery. He might believe that life is a futile and miserable thing, but his branch of the faith doesn't teach that it is his responsibility to spread misery in his god's name. As such, evil churches can just as easily operate in good-aligned cities and lands.

Similarly, good-aligned faiths can operate in evil lands, as well. They might believe as strongly as possible in equality and fairness for all, but they are pragmatic enough to realize that they can't possibly fight and defeat the oppressive forces that rule the land. Hence, they stick mainly to caring for the poor and sick, to make their otherwise miserable lives a little easier. Challenging the authorities will only get them hanged or impaled, and then who will take care of the poor and the orphaned? The authorities might not be overly fond of them, but they know that the priests aren't going to challenge them, and their feeding the poor gives the rabble a bone or two to keep them from revolting.
 

Evil cults are a staple. Kind of over-used, in fact I'd like to get away from them. Maybe good cults as opposition would be an intriguing change.
 

I'm actually starting a new campaign tonight (7 minutes from now, assuming any of the bastards show up on time... not here yet... friggin' players) where the players are all demon hunters, working for the Inquisition in a large church. The church worships the sky and the day, and is divided primarily into two different factions; The Lord (the sun) is the primary deity, and represents power and masculinity. The Lady (the moon) represents defense and femininity. The stars are believed to be evil demons, and so The Lady comes out at night to protect people. During new moons, evil is in full swing (instead of during full moons)... For example, werewolves come out during the new moon.

There's going to be a lot of corruption within the church, and possibly even within the party if anyone makes a character which is... amenable to it. However, the church is not overall corrupt, no more than any other large organization. There are good seeds... and there are bad seeds.
 

In my homebrew I have a church for the civilized human world, Temple of our Lady of the One True Way (ToOLotOTW). Clerics could be of any of the extreme alignments, just not N/N. worshippers could be of any alignment and most were N/N. This meant that the church didn't quite meet the needs of the worshippers but it was better than nothing.

There were two druidic sects for humans, the northern lands had a male celtic style god and the southern lands had a female goddess based on the Sumerian Lady of the Forest from Deities and Demi-gods. The primary secret goal of the ToOLotOTW was to incorportate the worship of the Lady of the Forest as an aspect of OLotOTW. This would have necessitated the suppression of the celtic deity.

Naturally, all but one of the PCs worshipped the celtic druidic god. That guy was an LG cleric of OLotOTW. :P
 

Religious organisations play a big role in all my games

1. My current campaign features an expansionist cult which has established itself as the rising power in the land. Its leaders are very totalitarian and even whispering the name of rival gods is punishable by death. The PCs live on an island not yet dominated by the Cult but which have had contact with its zealots (warriors).

2. In another collaborative campaign I played a Cleric who whilst a faithful beleiver was also a heretic in as much as he disagreed with the Emperor acquiring the role of High Prelate (head of the Church). He preached against the Emperors investiture and established a following which eventually lead to a civil war (that was fun).

3. In another game I DM'd the PCs were all agents of the Church who were initally tasked with recovering holy relics. They later come across heretic cults, are contacted by a breakaway sect within the Inquisition and are lead to uncovering signs of high level corruption within the Church itself

4. I even played a whole setting based on a Druidic Theocracy and its structures and influences

5. I've used the Alchemist-scholar Tomas Aquinas and dog head St Christorpher as NPCs, and used the legend of St Francis of Assissi as the basis of an adventure (in fact the legends of many of the Catholic saints make for great adventure material)
 

In my Drasconis campaign, which I'm putting together slowly, the deities aren't really that important - but their churches? One of the most important things in any citizen's life.

Each church doesn't just preach to it's followers (as most people worship more than one god - they pick one two or three to offer prayers to, and will make small donations when they want something done, but focus on one deity in particular). Each church also runs organizations that carry out important roles in the society.

The church of Galatea (a goddess of healing and music) run hospitals that tend to the sick (important, since few priests have actual magic). They also run bathhouses that are social hubs (and are a frequent rallying point for spies), as well as ampitheatres that showcase various artists.

The clergy of Parthalon (a god of honourable warfare, among other things) run academies that train officers and elite units for the imperial legions. Baracchus (Parthalon's opposite, a god of raw strength and chaos in combat) run the arenas, as well as the breweries, distilleries, and many of the food-producing industries.

The list goes on. The churches of the empire are responsible for a fair amount of shipping, magical (and non-magical) education, as well as pretty much running the trades of prophecy, tax collection, legal representation, hospitalization, mass entertaiment, olympics, elite training, orphanages, and so on.

Because there are relatively few gods (I think I have less than ten, but it may be as high as twelve), each god has a wide portfolio. And different areas attach different names (and traits) to each god. And religous wars have occured (the most recent being the vaguely arabic Caliphate of the Seven Spices against Imperial Drasconi; the Imperials believe that each god is independent, while the clergy of the Caliphate believe that each god is really just a fraction of one pure divine being, a simplification of divine essence, and instead focus much of their energies on the words of "The Prophets" - each prophet of a different "facet" of their great god).

But, yeah, in essence, the churches are what power religion in the game. Each player's choice of religion greatly effects what doors are open to their PC.
 

Doug McCrae said:
Evil cults are a staple. Kind of over-used, in fact I'd like to get away from them. Maybe good cults as opposition would be an intriguing change.

QFT. I also think that evil organizations-the Zhentarim, the Society of the Blue Salamander from Kalamar, the Scarlet Brotherhood, etc.-are also vastly over-used. Whatever happened to independent villains, whether they be bandit leaders, orc chiefs, pirate captains, or evil wizards with no greater organization behind them?
 

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