We don't have the 15 Minute Adventure Day Problem

joethelawyer

Banned
Banned
I have read about this issue in many threads. Maybe we do it differently, but we don't have that problem. I think that's because of 2 main reasons.

(For the record we play a 3.0 base game, with no prestige classes allowed,
[FONT=&quot]Ability Score Buff Spells: do not exist.[FONT=&quot] Save buff spells: do not exist.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Ability Score increasing items: do not exist. magic items giving a + to something lke attack or AC are limited to a max benefit depending on player level. Players can only memorize/pray for spells once every 24 hour period.)[/FONT]

First, for our group not every encounter is a CR approaching our level. Sometimes a 15th level group just opens the door and there is a room full of 4 orcs, waiting to be slaughtered. Therefore we never say "Wait, I am out of spells, and we know that room is likely full of bad guys nearly as tough as us, so lets go rest and memorize and pray." More often, we know the room is full of bad guys a lot less powerful than us. We do this because we like to level slower. We are far from the 11 encounters per level thing, as described in the dmg.

Second, the DM purposefully never lets us rest. He makes every game a war of attrition. Usually its because of a timeframe, where we know other things are happening, and if we can do our part of the mission fast other pieces fall into place favorably. Knowing we wont be able to rest when needed, we conserve our resources, and try to out-think the DM to overcome situations, rather than fight and blast our way through them.

Many times we've walked into a room almost out of spells, out of healing and low on HP, but we have to keep going and fight. It makes even lower CR encounters interesting. Basically, no rest until a mission is completed. We tend not to do long dungeon crawl type adventures, so it works out well.

We're never bored, and never feel unchallenged, because we dont look at challenges in terms of one encounter which we beat easily. We look at the challenge as the whole mission, which we know will get harder the longer we go, due in no small part to the fact that we will get weaker and less powerful the longer we go.

Just my 2 cents.
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In 28 years of gaming the only place I've seen this brought up in on line. I've never heard of players even consider it around a gaming table.
 

hey crothian, how the hell did you post 47000 times on this board? holy crap.

even more shocking, how is it that you're a 2nd level goblin sharpshooter and so am i, and i posted like 180 times? your posts dont suck THAT bad. :)

anyhow, i don't want to derail my own thread, so...
 

You're using "Trash mobs" which lengthens the day.

The 15-minute workday technically isn't 15 minutes but basically one enounter.

Look at it like this.

Many DMs and players hate using Trash mobs. In your example of a 15th level party facing down some orcs, many people wouldn't even bother creating such an encounter.

Reason why?
The melee guys can handle this and at the cost of some charges from the ubiquitous "Cure Light Wounds" wand. The spellcasters don't have to use any of their big gun spells (top 2-3 level of spells) so basically the fight just costs X-amount of gp.

However, as the EL starts creeping up near/past the EL of the party, the more it requires the spellcasters to use their spells that they have slotted at top because the outcome of the battle becomes more uncertain.

Given that many players and DMs prefer "meaningful" battles, this is where the 15 minute workday comes from since once you do such a battle, your spellcasters have lost their top level spells and can no longer repeat such a battle until the NEXT day.
 

Given that many players and DMs prefer "meaningful" battles, this is where the 15 minute workday comes from since once you do such a battle, your spellcasters have lost their top level spells and can no longer repeat such a battle until the NEXT day.

my point is, even after the meaningful battle, we are not done. due to the dictates of the gamestyle we play, we must go forward, until either the end of us or of the bad guys. we can always rest, the dm doesn't stop that, but resting always has its consequences. the big bad guys may get away, or what we needed to acomplish might not come in time to accomplish all the good it would have acomplished had we not rested.

and we know that. so we go on with our 1 magic missile spell wielding wizard, and our 20 hp 10th level fighter, and our out-of-healing cleric, and fight something we should be able to waste at full strength but in our weakened condition has a good chance of wasting us.

as for the "trash mobs" concept, the dm and players in my group all agree to keep things as realistic as we can. in other words, in walking thru the woods, we come upon an orc scouting party of 10 1st level orcs. they will be the same scouting party whether or not we came thru the woods as 15th level characters, or 1st level characters. who our characters are and what level we are does not dictate world events and enemy logic. the world doesnt revolve around our characters. the world exists, and we encounter it, just as anyone else would encounter it if they had chanced upon that scouting party in the woods, regardless of their level or class.

the scouting party was there according to the needs of the army it served, not for the purpose of giving the characters a non-garbage, more meaningful mob to kill. since we needed to go along that path to get to where we needed to go, we encountered that scouting party.
 
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We don't have the 15 Minute Adventure Day Problem

Neither do we, but then again, we play 4e ;)

We did however suffer from it during the last years of 3.x. In order for the encounters to be a appropriate (meaning: on the edge, as they like most of their encounters to be) challenge for my players, they were forced to use quite a lot of their ressources in order to stay alive. Which caused a lot of resting.
 

In 28 years of gaming the only place I've seen this brought up in on line. I've never heard of players even consider it around a gaming table.

Likewise (much less experience, though). The people I play with are more inclined to want to fight as much as they can before resting, they find it more fun that way. When we do clamor for a chance to rest mid-dungeon, it's because we got banged up really badly, to the point where even an "easy" encounter could kill some of us. And it's never in a happy kind of mood like, "yeah, we drained enough resources, now we can rest!" It's more like, "man, looks like we've got no choice but to stop and rest...d:):):) it." Just the whole idea of calling it quits before the adventure/day is over seems inherently lame to us.
 

In 28 years of gaming the only place I've seen this brought up in on line. I've never heard of players even consider it around a gaming table.

Honestly, what bugs me about posts like this is that there's literally nothing I can write in response. I was going to post about how this does come up in my games, how trash mobs are not a solution to gamers who meet bi-weekly around the schedules of kids and jobs, and so on. But why bother? But why would you listen to me, Crothian? You've already implied that anything that I would write is an invalid online-posting-board-only phenomenon. You imply that you've heard it all before and perhaps you have. But there's literally nothing I can write that will change your mind because the medium is... an online posting board.

You're a good poster and I love your reviews. But I do wish that this genre of posts to shut down discussion would go away.
 

I was going to post about how this does come up in my games, how trash mobs are not a solution to gamers who meet bi-weekly around the schedules of kids and jobs, and so on.

not addressing the rest of your post, just the above part. my group meets 2-3 times per month, not counting summers when we dont meet at all, for the reasons you outlined above. we have kids, jobs, etc, so we get maybe 2-4 hours of play time per session. we might average 10 hrs of game time per month.

i think the difference though, as to why we deal with the "trash mobs", is that fighting isn't everything for us. the last session we got together for 4 hours, and the entire session was our characters talking around a camp fire to a couple npc's, on a ride between verbobonc and hommlet.

maybe we don't mind that because XP isnt that important to us. we dont base XP on killing stuff and taking their loot. the dm gives us whatever xp we need to make us sufficient level to meet the challenges he has in store for us.

different styles i guess.
 

different styles i guess.

Exactly! The 15 minute workday isn't a problem for you because of your playstyle. Some groups have a playstyle that need or demand a 15 minute day.

If it is a problem to someone, they should do things to fix it, like change their playstyle or play a system that fits them better.

When I play, the group ususally rests when they need to. When your low on resources, it makes sense to rest.
 

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