We don't have the 15 Minute Adventure Day Problem

[Crothian]

Honestly, what bugs me about posts like this is that there's literally nothing I can write in response. I was going to post about how this does come up in my games, how trash mobs are not a solution to gamers who meet bi-weekly around the schedules of kids and jobs, and so on. But why bother? But why would you listen to me, Crothian? You've already implied that anything that I would write is an invalid online-posting-board-only phenomenon. You imply that you've heard it all before and perhaps you have. But there's literally nothing I can write that will change your mind because the medium is... an online posting board.

You're a good poster and I love your reviews. But I do wish that this genre of posts to shut down discussion would go away.

I'm not going to listen to you no matter what you post. But i will read the post, my message board configuration doesn't have a sound option.

Our game is weekly. It is scheduled around kids and wives and work and school and all the other things that come up with adult gamers. I haven't seen everything, yet. Some of the stuff i haven't seen I'm glad for. But there is still great stuff to be discovered (I hope) or else I'd probably quit gaming with nothing to look forward to.

Thinking it over I imagine there is one main reason why this doesn't come up in my games. The players always seem to feel that they have to finish things quickly. Or at least not slowly. Taking one encounter per day in a dungeon with 30 encounters is a month worth of campaign time and that would be very slow. They want to get things done in a timely manner. Most of our adventures are not just about going into a dungeon, either. I usually have more story in our games so they might be chasing someone or after something. There are almost always enemies or at least competing factions that they are against. If they did this approach they would waste too much time and the other guys would either escape, or get the Item.

I can see that there could be times a party would do this. But if they did it a lot in any one dungeon I would have the bad guys react to it and prepare for the PC with defensive strategies or just plain pick up the treasure they have and leave. No use for smart creatures to stay in one place and get slaughtered. In our games at least the world doesn't stand around and wait on the PCs.

Hopefully with a couple explanations of our games you can see what we do and compare it to your own gaming style and we can see what leads to this kind of behavior and what does not.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I've never had a group, or been in a group, where the "15 minute work day" ever occurred, either. The only time a group would stop after a single encounter was when it was a truly epic encounter designed to use every bit of their abilities.

Heck, my current group more often than not goes one encounter too far every time.

 

[Grazzt]

I've never had a group, or been in a group, where the "15 minute work day" ever occurred, either. The only time a group would stop after a single encounter was when it was a truly epic encounter designed to use every bit of their abilities.

Heck, my current group more often than not goes one encounter too far every time.

Same here. Even back in 1e, we never had the "15 min work day" issue that seems to be "common place" now (for lack of a better phrase).

 

[delericho]

We've seen the 15-minute day, in the latter stages of the Shackled City Adventure Path. By that point, almost every encounter was designed to take the party close to the limit, and so necessitate a rest-and-retreat approach.

We did cut down on it a lot by allowing easy access to cure light wounds wands, though.

In any case, while we saw the behaviour at work, I was never convinced it was actually that much of a problem.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Same here. Even back in 1e, we never had the "15 min work day" issue that seems to be "common place" now (for lack of a better phrase).

And I've seen it in every edition (but certainly not every group) I have played since BD&D. This is the problem with anecdotal evidence. It's anecdotal! In 3E I managed to solve this issue (mostly) by having a Dragon Shaman in the party - his healing aura made sure the cleric didn't have to burn every spell she had (she was multi-classed Fighter/Cleric without another healer in the group) after any fight. It wasn't perfect but it worked a helluva a lot better than my other group.

 

[airwalkrr]

I think if more people played 3e D&D the way you do, Joe, more people would enjoy it. I think it is closer to the way D&D is meant to be played.

If you use the 3e rules as written, however, it tends to encourage players to buff up with everything they can, leaving them with very few spells to actually cast on themselves. And players don't carry around wands, scrolls, staves, and potions because using those costs money (the horror!). I try to limit these things myself. Kudos.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Joe my games run pretty much like that. I run may games the same way in 2e,3e, 3.5 and now pathfinder. I have never ever seen the 15 min day ever.

Case in point last time I brought a new player in they were running a dungeon the wizard was almost out of spells. The new player [a fighter] says we need to stop he's out of spells. Every one at the table kinda blinks the wizard says " I got a crossbow I'm good lets roll" And we did.


The 15 min day is an odd thing I only ever hear of online

 

[airwalkrr]

We've seen the 15-minute day, in the latter stages of the Shackled City Adventure Path. By that point, almost every encounter was designed to take the party close to the limit, and so necessitate a rest-and-retreat approach.

Having run several of Paizo's APs, I can say with experience that it can be largely ameliorated with the right magic items. You mention wands of cure light wounds. That is a good start. Before heading into a new chapter the PCs need to take a week or two to rest and make a bunch of consumables like wands of healing and lesser restoration and the like. Or they have to bite the bullet and buy the stuff if they don't have the feats to make it themselves.

The biggest problem is that 3e encourages players to be stingy with their money at the same time. So it is up to the DM to teach the PCs that if they take the hit-and-run approach, that they will lose. It takes a bit of finesse, but it is doable.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Like joethelawyer, I've not encountered the "15 minute workday" either. Again, we too find that every decision has consequences- rest and someone gets away or gets scarce resources replenished; press forward and you may find yourself struggling in an encounter you'd breeze by at full strength.

And we have a blast playing that way.

It helps that we have a bunch of smart, veteran players in our group. The guy who loves to play mages almost never wastes a spell. He won't cast anything unless its absolutely necessary. We went through 6 encounters in RttToEE in a 24 hour campaign day at one point, and he still had some (admittedly low-level) spells left.

We've also gotten pretty good at avoiding combat when we can, either by RP or taking a different approach to the encounter...like by going in a completely different direction.

And of course, it REALLY helps when you listen to the hints your DM may be dropping. If your DM is saying words like "necromancer," "graveyard," and "unquiet dead," you'd best stock up on holy symbols and holy water.

 

[CleverNickName]

Exactly! The 15 minute workday isn't a problem for you because of your playstyle. Some groups have a playstyle that need or demand a 15 minute day.

I agree wholeheartedly. The 15-minute workday is not a problem with the game system, it is a side-effect of play style.

We tend to play a more story-focused game with lots of puzzles and skill challenges, but very little combat action. Since the wizard isn't blowing his wad of spells in the first round of the first battle, and since the party won't be fighting groups of bad guys every thirty minutes, they don't seem to burn through their resources so quickly.

But I can see how this style of game would be boring for those who prefer a combat-heavy style of play. The trick is to help the party balance their resources through strategically-placed treasure. If all the party is going to do is move from battle to battle, the DM will need to replace most of the treasure with scrolls, potions, alchemical preparations, arrows, and other expendible items so that the party isn't starved for resources.

It's more art than science, but the DM and the players should both have a pretty good feel for it after a couple of gaming sessions.