We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[Majoru Oakheart]

On a side note, I've thought about the way Luke is portrayed in TLJ, and as someone who has suffered from depression, I can only say that, given the circumstances, I don't think Luke's behavior is really that incomprehensible (or out of character). For one thing, he's no longer the spunky youngster he was in the OT. For another, he'd allowed himself to believe he was as infallible as the stories made him out to be, so when his world literally came crashing down around him, it would've been devastating. And because he not only cut himself off from the Force but also from everyone who cared about him by running away and hiding, he had no one to bring him out of that depressing sphere he'd put himself in. No Han to talk him out of it, no Leia to kick some sense into him, no Yoda to make fun of him ... I know what it's like to be all alone with just the thoughts in your own head.

It's not at all surprising to me that when Rey finds Luke, he's a defeated man who just wants to die. I've been there. And I don't think it takes him "too long" to claw his way out of that pit.

The problem is that I don't want Luke to be just another person who gets caught up in depression. I want the Jedi to be larger than life heroes. I think of them as the Holy Paladins. The ones chosen by the Force to be better than everyone else. They stand up for right. I think of them the same way I do Superman.

No one worries about Superman succumbing to depression and taking a day off. Part of his character is that he is above that, he's dependable. He's stronger than normal people.

That's how I view Luke. As a larger than life figure who doesn't have to worry about the problems of normal people. He's above that. He sees the future, he knows the will of the Force, which is destiny and luck itself. I could see him temporarily falling into a bit of a funk. But the full blown depression we got just seemed like the sort of thing that shouldn't affect Luke. As Luke himself said, he had become a Legend. To me and to a lot of other people. Legends don't get brought down by mundane things.

Of course, that's the point this movie is trying to make. People made him out to be a Legend. But he wasn't one, he was just a normal person who happened to have the Force. The movie was a message directly to people like me that said "You take this too seriously. We don't. Get used to it."

Also, once he reconnects with the Force again, he can see into the future. How do we know he didn't see that appearing on Crait would be the most efficient way to help the Resistance? What difference could he have made by appearing as a Force projection in Snoke's throne room? How could he have saved more people when the Resistance was still out in space?

I didn't want him to become a Force projection. I wanted him to get into his X-Wing and blow up a bunch of ships, then to face Kylo in real life and beat him back so he was forced to retreat. I then wanted Luke to survive until the next movie so that he could finally teach Rey properly and actually pass on what he had learned, like Yoda told him to.

I wanted the story that started in the previous movies to find an actual ending.

 

[pukunui]

Of course, that's the point this movie is trying to make. People made him out to be a Legend. But he wasn't one, he was just a normal person who happened to have the Force. The movie was a message directly to people like me that said "You take this too seriously. We don't. Get used to it."

Exactly.

I wanted the story that started in the previous movies to find an actual ending.

I'm sorry the movie didn't live up to your expectations. It didn't live up to mine either, but upon repeat viewings, I found myself liking it anyway (except for that one bit, but I shall refrain from continuing to harp on it ...).

I still think I like TFA and Rogue One better than TLJ, but TLJ is certainly better than TPM or AotC. I'd probably rank it equal with RotS. But I honestly haven't figured out an exact ranking for each of the movies. ESB is up there at the top, but so is TFA and Rogue One. AotC is at the bottom, with TPM just above it. And the others are all sort of mixed up in the middle. ESB has always been my personal favourite, although Rogue One is now giving it a good run for its money, but I couldn't tell you whether I like ANH or RotJ better. They're probably above RotS, which is the best of a bad bunch.

But I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's entirely possible I like TFA more than ANH. I *know* the former is very obviously a rehash of the latter, but that has never bothered me. TFA is fresh, whereas ANH is starting to look more than a little dated these days. (ESB and RotJ hold up better to my eyes.)

 

[cbwjm]

I saw TFA the other week and I loved it. I'm a huge star wars fan but I don't myself get stuck in the nostalgia of the original trilogy. That's not to say that I thought the movie was perfect but I still thought it was a good addition to the series.

Sent from my [device_name] using EN World mobile app

 

[hawkeyefan]

That's how I view Luke. As a larger than life figure who doesn't have to worry about the problems of normal people. He's above that. He sees the future, he knows the will of the Force, which is destiny and luck itself. I could see him temporarily falling into a bit of a funk. But the full blown depression we got just seemed like the sort of thing that shouldn't affect Luke. As Luke himself said, he had become a Legend. To me and to a lot of other people. Legends don't get brought down by mundane things.

Of course, that's the point this movie is trying to make. People made him out to be a Legend. But he wasn't one, he was just a normal person who happened to have the Force. The movie was a message directly to people like me that said "You take this too seriously. We don't. Get used to it."

That’s an incredibly specific message. It’s also a pessimistic and slightly entitled view.

I took it as far more general. There are no such people as you describe. There are no people beyond the worries of man. There are those that when faced with such worries, rise above and achieve. And the great thing is that this is within all of us. We can all do it. We don’t need the Force or Invulnerability in order to overcome. No matter how dark things get...no matter how much we might fail...we can still achieve greatness.

Kind of fits in line with a lot of the rest of the movie. I can see how you didn’t like it...you don’t seem to accept the message.

 

[MoonSong]

I knew long ago that there was no way I was going to be able to watch it on the opening weekend, so I did the best thing for myself under the circumstance. I refused to watch the trailers, stopped using facebook and would only watch youtube channels that I was certain would never ever mention the movie. That way I had no preconceptions, no hype and no spoilers, only so I could watch it with truly fresh eyes.

I've got to say, I like it. It is entertaining, fun and has a deep message that resonates with me. I can't believe people actually hate this movie. I mean there is a couple of obvious issues:
1) This one completely runs over the OT, it throws a lot of things people loved about it under the bus. In a way it renders the victories of the previous movies moot.
2) Luke looks and acts on a strange way, slightly out of character from what we last saw him.

Of course, both those issues have been there since the Force Awakens, they were so obvious from day one. And I enjoyed the Force Awakens despite these problems -and on top of it throwing all prequels under the bus-. The movies still work and are fun to watch. There is so much sense in the way they work. And porgs, porgs are super cute, I love porgs, I want one for Christmas!

 

[trappedslider]

I want one for Christmas!

Who doesn't?

 

[Maxperson]

Who doesn't?

Chewbacca.

 

[Raith5]

So ... like it or not, we have The Last Jedi. Where to from here for Episode IX?

I have this sense that the series has written itself into a box at this point that it will be hard to get out of (or ... gasp ... requires more than one movie).


So the state of the universe appears to be:

(1) There are about 20 people left in the Resistance, all loaded on the Millennium Falcon. Fleet, fighters, transports ... gone.

(2) The Republic's capital is dead, and their entire military is destroyed.

(3) The First Order is taking over, though we don't actually see it, and it doesn't seem like they have that much with which to take over the galaxy.

(4) The Resistance's allies have not come to their aid.

(5) We have one untrained Force User against a trained-but-unstable Kylo (and presumably the Knights of Ren).

Goal: Rebuild the Resistance/Republic, beat back the First Order, restore peace and justice to the Old New Republic (tm).

How do you do it?

This is an option - (I saw this image on twitter).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Luke's force projection was a nice way of him remaining true to what he said about not going to leave the planet. He technically didn't.
I did not expect him to die from it, but it was kinda hinted at by Kylo saying that the projection that connected him and Rey would kill Rey if she had done it herself.

One of my expectations however was that Poe would end up on Luke's planet, and after having lost his own X-Wing, he would take Luke's. Of course, that might still happen in some way.

 

[hopeless]

Makes me wonder what if Ackbar persuaded Leia to don a Vacc Suit and when the bridge was hit her helmet was ruptured forcing Ackbar to swap hers for his own sacrificing himself rather than that idiotic sequence they showed?

A suitable heroic ending for a character and given they're in the middle of a space battle why wouldn't they be using Vacc suits?!

 

[Raith5]

I thought that the Last Jedi was a mess. I knew the end of luke skywalker's story was coming - and I wanted it to come to end - but it was done in such clumsy, wishy washy fashion which contradicted the original stories. That is Luke is now a coward who finally decides to skype in, Leia who starts out with republic but two films later can fit the whole resistance in the Millennium Falcon, chewy/R2D2/C3PO did less to push the story along than the Porgs (which were great btw). Surely you can build a new series without hollowing out this legacy?

Aside from the lack of engagement with this legacy, and the lack of continuity with the Force Awakens (so many dropped story lines), I just didnt enjoy it as film. Sure, it had great moments and great ideas but then it had moments I found really distracting (suddenly space fuel is a thing, bombs in space, space Leia doing the mary poppins thing, the whole casino story line, hyperdrives as a weapon, etc). How did a film with this budget get beyond the story board phase?

It is the only SW film where I regularly check my watch and I wondered if Star Trek fan club is still taking applicants.

 

[Imaculata]

Nothing brings me more joy than seeing people on the internet complain about social justice warriors after seeing a movie. And it truly was a joy to see such varied representation in this movie, with a lot of female pilots too.

But after seeing the movie, I still have mixed feelings about it. Surprisingly, the deconstruction of the Force and iconic characters from the original trilogy, is what I take the least issue with. These were actually welcome additions to the movie. Its good that they shake things up, and I was genuinly intrigued by the movie's take on the Force. They gave us something new, and constantly defy audience expectation.

But the story was uneven, lots of scenes ultimately don't go anywhere (no pay off), several jokes fall flat, and the editing is occasionally a bit jarring. Some scenes go on too long, or they cut back to something we've already seen, with no real progression of the story. And then some other scenes end too abruptly, and do not allow the scene to settle with the audience (which you need).

This movie has a lot of pacing and editing problems. Plus this not only is a long movie, but it FEELS long. After the whole casino and space race bit, I remembered from the trailer that surely there's still an entire battle on the planet krait with AT-AT's that is supposed to happen. And I honestly thought to myself, how much longer is this going to be? I'm fine with movies that are a bit longer. Sometimes you are so drawn into a movie, that time flies by, and you don't even notice the length. But due to some serious pacing problems during the second act, you really notice that it drags on.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I bet the whole parsec line also rubs some of you the wrong way......god i swear sometimes i'm ashamed to be part of this fandom.

Well, you see, there are these black holes near Kessel, and ...

 

[hawkeyefan]

So I’m not sure why Rian Johnson gets the blame for “destroying Luke” or whatever...it was very clearly established in The Force Awakens that Luke had a rogue student who destroyed his academy and then he quit...just walked away from it all. Han explains this to Finn and Rey in the Falcon in the Force Awakens.

So The Last Jedi was just going with what had been established. Not sure why people angry about this take on Luke are directing it at Johnson amd The Last Jedi.

Why did people seemingly go into this movie expecting something other than what Han explained?

 

[hopeless]

The more I hear about this the more I'm left wondering if Disney had Rian increase the amount of time involving Luke and Rey at the cost of ruining his actual planned storyline?

The Resistance are on the run, Finn is sent to infiltrate a First Order base to locate and disable whatever the FO are using to track them.

So they hide within say an asteroid belt waiting out the FO fleet forcing them to send in fighters almost killing Leia in a surprise attack.

We see glimpses of Rey's training they reveal Rey was clearly raised by a Jedi survivor explaining her prodigious abilities making it clear it was Finn who awakened in TFA not Rey!

Finn accompanied by a group of 2-4 specforces operatives making it clear he's their to advise not take centre stage.
The whole thing however is a trap set for Finn, the whole DJ betraying them is actually to help smuggle in Rose & BB-8 so they can complete the mission and hopefully rescue Finn.

They use Finn to draw out Rey ala ESB, but Finn escapes on his own.

Rose secures the ship they need to escape on, BB-8 sabotages the Supremacy whilst Finn helps rescue Rey demonstrating his fight with Kylo wasn't a one off.

Kylo kills Snoke caught unawares by the realisation that Finn was the one he felt awaken.

Can't help wondering what his original story would have been?

 

[Maxperson]

So I’m not sure why Rian Johnson gets the blame for “destroying Luke” or whatever...it was very clearly established in The Force Awakens that Luke had a rogue student who destroyed his academy and then he quit...just walked away from it all. Han explains this to Finn and Rey in the Falcon in the Force Awakens.

So The Last Jedi was just going with what had been established. Not sure why people angry about this take on Luke are directing it at Johnson amd The Last Jedi.

Why did people seemingly go into this movie expecting something other than what Han explained?

It's pretty easy to see why Johnson is getting the blame. While it was established in The Force Awakens, it wasn't really visible until The Last Jedi. Humanity tends to be near sighted and blames what it can see, not necessarily the cause of what it can see.

 

[hawkeyefan]

It's pretty easy to see why Johnson is getting the blame. While it was established in The Force Awakens, it wasn't really visible until The Last Jedi. Humanity tends to be near sighted and blames what it can see, not necessarily the cause of what it can see.

Just seems very odd to me. Folks seem mad at this movie for using what TFA established, and for NOT using things that fans speculated about after TFA.

I would have expected anyone that had such strong expectations about this movie wouldn’t ignore what had actually been established.

 

[Joker]

Some things may have been established in TFA but there was no plan or outline for what was going to happen after. This comes from JJ Abrahms and Rian Johnson themselves. It seems to me JJ wanted to make a good intro movie for the trilogy with enough plothooks for the next director to work with. He came from making Lost with Lindenhoff so he knows how to throw a lot of interesting things in the mix which may or may not lead to anything.
I don't really remember the original trilogy so I could care less about Luke. But I can understand people getting mad at Rian for writing Luke the way he did in The Last Jedi.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

I thought that the Last Jedi was a mess. I knew the end of luke skywalker's story was coming - and I wanted it to come to end - but it was done in such clumsy, wishy washy fashion which contradicted the original stories. That is Luke is now a coward who finally decides to skype in, Leia who starts out with republic but two films later can fit the whole resistance in the Millennium Falcon, chewy/R2D2/C3PO did less to push the story along than the Porgs (which were great btw). Surely you can build a new series without hollowing out this legacy?

Aside from the lack of engagement with this legacy, and the lack of continuity with the Force Awakens (so many dropped story lines), I just didnt enjoy it as film. Sure, it had great moments and great ideas but then it had moments I found really distracting (suddenly space fuel is a thing, bombs in space, space Leia doing the mary poppins thing, the whole casino story line, hyperdrives as a weapon, etc). How did a film with this budget get beyond the story board phase?

It is the only SW film where I regularly check my watch and I wondered if Star Trek fan club is still taking applicants.

They should have brought in Thrawn!

You tell me, who is the better villain? Thrawn would never have relied on some silly think like the Starkiller Base. I hear is still part of the movie continuity, he might show up for Episode IX.

 

[MoonSong]

Nothing brings me more joy than seeing people on the internet complain about social justice warriors after seeing a movie. And it truly was a joy to see such varied representation in this movie, with a lot of female pilots too.

I think some people just project at each and every chance they get. None of the female characters felt gratuitous, their presence made sense and made the world more organic.

But after seeing the movie, I still have mixed feelings about it. Surprisingly, the deconstruction of the Force and iconic characters from the original trilogy, is what I take the least issue with. These were actually welcome additions to the movie. Its good that they shake things up, and I was genuinly intrigued by the movie's take on the Force. They gave us something new, and constantly defy audience expectation.

Yes the deconstruction was welcome and the best part of the movie.

But the story was uneven, lots of scenes ultimately don't go anywhere (no pay off), several jokes fall flat, and the editing is occasionally a bit jarring. Some scenes go on too long, or they cut back to something we've already seen, with no real progression of the story. And then some other scenes end too abruptly, and do not allow the scene to settle with the audience (which you need).

Lots of minor problems with edition. I was anxious half the time. Though I disagree on the humor, a lot of the jokes are way funnier in the dub or are erased if not needed. VAs in my country do magic.

This movie has a lot of pacing and editing problems. Plus this not only is a long movie, but it FEELS long. After the whole casino and space race bit, I remembered from the trailer that surely there's still an entire battle on the planet krait with AT-AT's that is supposed to happen. And I honestly thought to myself, how much longer is this going to be? I'm fine with movies that are a bit longer. Sometimes you are so drawn into a movie, that time flies by, and you don't even notice the length. But due to some serious pacing problems during the second act, you really notice that it drags on.

One of the benefits of avoiding trailers, I didn't know what expect and I just allowed myself to follow the flow of the movie. Only by the last act I got to think back and notice "wow, this feels like a miniseries and I'm watching the season end".

I'm going a second time. Can't wait to buy the DVD, too.

I don't think I'd go twice to the theater to see the same movie. But I'm eager to get the Blueray as soon as it's out.