We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[hawkeyefan]

The more I see of the negative reaction, the more I’m convinced that a lot of it is really due to false expectations. We fans tend to over obsess about a lot of this stuff. So for the past 2 years, everyone’s been building up certain story elements into a much bigger deal than The Force Awakens ever really justifies.

So peoples’ artificially inflated expectations were not met. So they’re mad.

Imagine if the original trilogy faced this level of scrutiny. Especially since it’s become very clear that Lucas was changing things along the way and making stuff up on the fly. If the internet existed then, people would have likely been just as harsh on those films as they are on the new ones.

But the original trilogy escaped that nonsense. And it also benefitted from being the first....it had no legacy or expectation to live up to. The new films, though? They have an impossible task to make many of these people happy. Impossible. What movie that is escapist fantasy should have to face such insane criticism? At what point do they just accept that they cannot please the 40 year old adults who scrutinize every bit of minutiae about the films? At what point do they say “well the original films were really more for kids...so let’s worry about that demo”?

Seriously...I say that as a 43 year old dude who loves Star Wars and all this kind of stuff. But because I’ve chosen to place importance on these movies because of the sentiment they hold for me does not mean that the people who create them must be beholden to me. I would argue that they should not be.

If you want to know if this movie, or any Star Wars movie really, is any good, then ask a 10 year old.

 

[Joker]

My criticism is leveled at the narrative failings. I'm not a fan of Star Wars who cares about the franchise. I've liked some of the Star Wars movies and didn't like others.
But in this movie there are some choices for character and plot development that left me baffled.

A ten year old will like Transformers. That doesn't mean it's a "good" movie.

 

[Water Bob]

The characters in the original three movies grew and changed over the course of the movies as well as having new things revealed (like Leia being a Skywalker), and where they ended up isn't a straight line from what they wanted in the first movie.

Or Vader being Luke's father. We didn't have social media and the net back then, but I remember reading an article about how this disappointed some fans of the original film.

 

[wicked cool]

forget the fact that if you over 40 and you say they didn't make it for me.

here are my rants
-some of the ship to ship dialogue seems right out of Spaceballs. Watch the scene with moranis and his commander picks up the phone to get someone to do something. I get that maybe I'm taking this movie to seriously but the dialogue/comedy in that scene plus other scenes dont fit.

-I love you. John Mayor the singer has this song (Tracing) where he talks about a person in love after about ten minutes. That scene reminded me of that song. If she had kissed him maybe it would have worked

-r2 and threepio. It truly feel like they are there just there to appease the old timers. It truly feels like they don't want to use a of the old stuff (barely recycling of old creatures as they don't fit into that part of the galaxy and yet there are humans everywhere. thank god Chewie and the falcon get love in these

It feel like the secondary storylines suck compared to the original storyline. Examples

Han-smuggler-fight with Greedo-connected to Lando-connected to Hutt etc (maybe Lucas made some of it up but he did a much better job than these new writers)
Luke-uncle -Obi etc

what do you have in these first 2. we are 2 movies in and
Poe dameron-Little to nothing other than a good pilot
finn-trooper and the janitor joke
rey-Fans don't trust what we know which isn't much
Maz-more mystery
Snoke-more excuses and comparisons to emperor. Problem with that comparison was emperor was in beginning. How did this guy waltz in and take over

I'd love someone to defend the story's of the last 2 vs episodes 4-6. The last few minutes of Rogue 1 has been the best star Wars material I've seen in the most recent 6 movies

 

[Water Bob]

When The Force Awakens came out, people groaned that it was too much of a re-hash of what has come before.

Now, Star Wars is given something fresh and new--a new direction and growth in the story line--and some fans are complaining about that.

What worries me about the negative reaction is what will J.J. Abrams do with the next film. Will he play it safe and do what he did with TFA, giving us a re-hash of Jedi? Or, will he continue what Rian has started and take us in a new direction, showing us a new story?

Say what you want to about TLJ, and what I'll say to you is, "Just think of what we'd have if Lucas had continued with this trilogy."

Thank the Force we didn't get more prequels-quality Star Wars.

 

[Morrus]

What worries me about the negative reaction is what will J.J. Abrams do with the next film. Will he play it safe and do what he did with TFA, giving us a re-hash of Jedi? Or, will he continue what Rian has started and take us in a new direction, showing us a new story?

Since I enjoyed both TFA and TLJ, it doesn't worry me one jot which approach he takes. Either is fine with me.

 

[hawkeyefan]

My criticism is leveled at the narrative failings. I'm not a fan of Star Wars who cares about the franchise. I've liked some of the Star Wars movies and didn't like others.
But in this movie there are some choices for character and plot development that left me baffled.

A ten year old will like Transformers. That doesn't mean it's a "good" movie.

I’m not saying that the film is flawless. I have criticisms of some of the narrative choices they made. But most of them are minor compared to the things that I think they got right. But there are valid croticosms that people have mentioned.

What I’m talking about is more the raging hate that I’ve seen online, or the crazy standards that people have for these films.

And in regard to ten year olds...my point is that they’re going to judge the movie based mostly on itself and if it was fun or cool. They’re not going to talk about subversion of the original trilogy or whether or not the narrative choices were fitting. And while I don’t mind having such a discussion (obviously) I think there comes a point where we have to acknowledge that this is an all-ages film, and we have to keep that in mind during critical discussion. I don’t think any of the story elements are out of line with plenty of things we saw in the original trilogy.

It’s just that the original trilogy gets a pass.

When The Force Awakens came out, people groaned that it was too much of a re-hash of what has come before.

Now, Star Wars is given something fresh and new--a new direction and growth in the story line--and some fans are complaining about that.

What worries me about the negative reaction is what will J.J. Abrams do with the next film. Will he play it safe and do what he did with TFA, giving us a re-hash of Jedi? Or, will he continue what Rian has started and take us in a new direction, showing us a new story?

Say what you want to about TLJ, and what I'll say to you is, "Just think of what we'd have if Lucas had continued with this trilogy."

Thank the Force we didn't get more prequels-quality Star Wars.

I don’t think they will change direction and start pandering to the vocal minority. I think it’s clear that they recognize the need to capture a new audience, and I think it’s clear they’re succeeding.

 

[Water Bob]

One of the things Rian got very "right," imo, is the link between Luke and Ben. Luke saw the Dark Side exploding in the young, strong Force User, and he had lived through the evil of Vader and the Galactic Civil War against the Emperor. It makes sense to me that Luke would at least think hard about snuffing out that Darkness before it blooms.

But, Luke is Luke. He caught himself.

And, from Ben's point of view, seeing your master--your uncle--standing over you with lightsaber drawn while you sleep. He could probably feel Luke's intention through the Force.

Boom. Tasty conflict that makes sense from both sides.

Very cool.

 

[wicked cool]

As much as I hate Jar Jar we got a story for him. Lucas lost his way with a bad actor for vader with a crappy backstory, reliance on blue screen etc but it had good stuff in it. Emperors rise to power was good, Kenobi and some of the jedi backstorys was good. It felt like with some minor storyline changes, better Anakin etc it could have been much better trilogy
Last jedi-awakens and even rogue 1 have -0 character development
jedi-Plot/dialogue is just awful if you look at from say modern television such as expanse/galactics/game of thrones etc or even current scifi movies such as passengers/guardians of galaxy . As an audience we are given zilch. We know less of whats going on than the heroes. the big chase/tracking/casino/mutiny storyline is absurd. What could have happened is the ship temporaily blocks the signal/hides and they go looking but instead we probably get one of the worst plot lines. the whole superwoman in space thing was just gross.

Defenders say we are to blame and yet critics set us up with better or as good as empire. no offense if I a critic says it as good as empire then my expectation is the critic watched both which either means they did homework and watched empire or are old enough to remember it fondly. I would like to know how its as good as empire based on what u defenders know of both. Based on basic literature/writing classes jedi fails on how to write a basic story

My 10 year old if asked would say Thor 3 is better. I would argue that many of the marvel movies, Jurassic world, latest remake of king kong etc have
-more believable plots
-better backstorys
-better side quest storylines
-better villians
-better minor creatures from the wampas to the asteroid worm and rancor
-Other than nostalgia if your 10 year old sees the last 2 star wars movies do they care and knew nothing about the history would they care if so and so old character died. My wife cried when Yoda died in ROTJ and she saw it as an adult when they re-released it.

 

[Morrus]

I’m surprised the novel isn’t a simultaneous release. I like to read them too. Apparently it’s still a few months away.