We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[billd91]

I think we all know what the ugly answer to that question is.

Too right we do, and it really pisses me off.

 

[Maxperson]

As far as Rey using a lightsaber go s, who trained Luke to the point where he could go toe to toe with Vader? Other than a brief scene with Obi-Wan in ANH, when does Luke actually train?

There are these movies called Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi where Luke begins and completes his training with a Jedi master who also happens to have been one of the best light saber fighters in the Jedi order. You should probably watch them. They were pretty good.

So why is it so unbelievable that Rey can too?

Because zero training is not even remotely the same as intense training under a Jedi combat master.

 

[Maxperson]

Too right we do, and it really pisses me off.

No kidding. Luke should have given her intense training as a Jedi, including combat, just the way he got it from Yoda.

 

[Morrus]

No kidding. Luke should have given her intense training as a Jedi, including combat, just the way he got it from Yoda.

When did Luke get this intense combat training you speak of?

 

[Maxperson]

When did Luke get this intense combat training you speak of?

We see him go from just meeting Yoda to doing flips with Yoda on his back. There was a lot of off air time where he got training, which would have included light sabers. Then in Return of the Jedi, he has completed his training before showing up to rescue Han. It's implied by his new competence(since he exhibited none of Reys "I intuitively know it all and need no training" behaviors) that he has been back and completed his training. Lucas spared us the boring training scenes.

 

[Morrus]

We see him go from just meeting Yoda to doing flips with Yoda on his back.

Ha ha ha! My goodness, that’s irony for you! That *actually* made me laugh out loud.

There was a lot of off air time where he got training, which would have included light sabers. Then in Return of the Jedi, he has completed his training before showing up to rescue Han. It's implied by his new competence(since he exhibited none of Reys "I intuitively know it all and need no training" behaviors) that he has been back and completed his training. Lucas spared us the boring training scenes.

Oh, it happened offscreen, did it? It’s “implied”?

Yeah, Rey had extensive implied lightsaber training offscreen too.

Johnston spared us the boring training scenes.

(Well except for the bit where you actually *do* see her training with a lightsaber, unlike Luke’s “implied” training which Lucas “spares us from seeing”).

Look. They both get about the same training. In fact Rey gets actual on-screen non-implied lightsaber training where Luke does not, and already knows how to use a staff. Anything else, “implied” or not, comes from you, not the movie.

 

[Mallus]

Star Wars is basically a fairy tale. When the Evil Queen is defeated and Snow White gets her Prince, of course they live happily everafter. We don't expect the prince to get estranged from her, their child turning out to become a mass-murderer.

On the other hand, the side-prequel to the original Star Wars is Rogue One.

A war movie similar to The Dirty Dozen which introduces one of its protagonists by having him murdering a fellow resistance asset to prevent him from being captured by the Imperials. This is literally how we meet Cassian Andor. That's not a fairy tale... it's Army of Shadows in space (with snarky robots). Then at the end, everyone dies.

The Star Wars universe is vast. It contains multitudes. Sometimes within the same movie.

 

[Mallus]

In fact Rey gets actual on-screen non-implied lightsaber training where Luke does not, and already knows how to use a staff. Anything else, “implied” or not, comes from you, not the movie.

On top of that, the duel at the end of TFA strongly suggests that lightsaber training -- which Rey's had none of at that point -- is far less important than connection to Force, which Rey has in abundance.

She beats Kylo in lightsaber combat by using the Force (and not by mind-tricking or zapping him - with the laser blade).

 

[Maxperson]

Ha ha ha! My goodness, that’s irony for you! That *actually* made me laugh out loud.

Oh, it happened offscreen, did it? It’s “implied”?

Yes, it is with the scenes that we see.

Yeah, Rey had extensive implied lightsaber training offscreen too.

Johnston spared us the boring training scenes.

Which scenes imply that? I must have missed them. I saw her pick up a light saber and go toe to toe with a trained dark side user with no training.

(Well except for the bit where you actually *do* see her training with a lightsaber, unlike Luke’s “implied” training which Lucas “spares us from seeing”).

You mean up on the rock going through forms she was never trained at, unlike Luke? People without training by competent others don't pick up a sword and know how to use it like she did. They kinda swing it around lamely trying to look cool.

Look. They both get about the same training. In fact Rey gets actual on-screen non-implied lightsaber training where Luke does not, and already knows how to use a staff. Anything else, “implied” or not, comes from you, not the movie.

The movies do imply Luke's training. He doesn't walk in on Yoda, ask for training, walk into the cave and then leave without getting any. The training is not only implied, it's intensely implied by the scenes we get.

 

[Morrus]

Yes, it is with the scenes that we see.

Luke is such a Mary Sue.

Which scenes imply that? I must have missed them. I saw her pick up a light saber and go toe to toe with a trained dark side user with no training.

They're off-screen. Implied.