We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[hopeless]

I assumed Kylo studied force powers more intensively but had little training with the lightsaber such that when badly wounded he was first hit again by someone that was implied to be force sensitive before having his arse handed to him by someone I figured had at least Padawan training enough that even no prior use of the lightsaber didn't matter given she had demonstrated considerable melee combat training to counter multiple foes something I doubt Kylo had given his obvious reliance on force powers.

I actually thought Leia taught him and it was only when she realised someone was trying to corrupt him that she sent him to Luke for his own safety.

 

[Maxperson]

Luke is such a Mary Sue.

They're off-screen. Implied.

You could have just told me no you didn't have anything to back up your statements.

This seems like what you did earlier in the thread where you argued a position you later admitted you didn't really believe.

 

[Maxperson]

Clearly, you’re not grokking my meaning.

So explain.

 

[hawkeyefan]

The only training scene that I can recall (and I’ll admit to only being passing familiar with te prequels) makes it incredibly clear that wielding a lightsaber is actually about using the Force and not about using the lightsaber.

Then, we have Luke in Last Jedi explain that the two most powerful Force users he’s ever sensed (meaning more powerful than Vader, Yoda, and Palpatine) are Kylo Ren and Rey.

Luke seemed to intuitively understand how to wield his lightsaber because he is using the Force. Yoda does not have a lightsaber on Dagobah....so whatever offscreen training that may have taken place MUST be about using the Force, not any kind of Lightsaber 101. Which matches the training sessions that we do see.

I would say that it stands to reason that someone who is inherently more powerful with the Force very well may be better with applications of the Force, which would include using a lightsaber.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't see Yoda going to Dagobah and just not bringing or destroying his lightsaber. We don't see it, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't there.

 

[OB1]

What we have been shown in the films is that having the Force is like having a blaster, it makes you powerful immediately... and without training you are dangerous to yourself and others.


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[hawkeyefan]

I don't see Yoda going to Dagobah and just not bringing or destroying his lightsaber. We don't see it, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't there.

Well it depends on how you look at it.

Prior to the prequels, I don’t think Yoda was intended to even have a lightsaber. I think the character was originally envisioned as not having a lightsaber. I think there was intended to be a difference between a Jedi Knight and a Jedi Master. Or something along thise lines.

Looking at it after the prequels, I’d say it could go either way. We’ve no reason to think he left his saber, but we also have no evidence that he does have it.

We’ve no reason to imagine lightsaber training to have taken place on Dagobah. Not of the kind you’re taking about, anyway. More the “open yourself up to the Force....let it guide you...” type lessons, sure.

I think Rey’s lightsaber practice alone in a place that has been established to have a powerful connection to the Force, after she has been established as an incredibly powerful Force user is probably the most sognificant lightsaber training sequence we’ve ever been shown.

 

[Eltab]

But you should ask yourself if you didn't like it because it was a bad story or because it conflicts with your preconceptions for the characters.

Both are true, and there are more reasons (which I've described up-thread) to think this a poorly-done Star Wars movie.

 

[Morrus]

I don't see Yoda going to Dagobah and just not bringing or destroying his lightsaber. We don't see it, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't there.

You don't see Rey having extensive lightsaber training. We don't see it, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't there. That's me using your exact words to show you how untenable they are; or how you apply differing standards to two identical instances.

The weird thing is that you're willing to invent scenes that didn't exist to create a fictional Luke narrative in your mind, and refuse to acknowledge scenes that *do* exist which contradict the Rey narrative in your mind.

We can all just invent stuff not in the movie to suit our narratives. It feels like you're trying *really* hard to invent things which aren't in either movie to portray Luke's story as unfolding differently to Rey's, when in reality they're pretty much exactly the same; but you are adamantly refusing to accept that to the point where you're creating your own movie scripts to back it up.

When you can't accept that Luke being able to blow up the Death Star without a targeting computer is the exact same character arc as Rey being able to fight with a lightsaber, you've got some kind of blockage going on. When you take that so far as to actually invent off-screen implied scenes for one character and not the other, it just gets all kind of weird.

And I'm still chuckling over your classic "One moment Luke meets Yoda, in the next scene he's doing backflips!" howler. Literally your exact criticism of Rey.

 

[Maxperson]

Well it depends on how you look at it.

Prior to the prequels, I don’t think Yoda was intended to even have a lightsaber. I think the character was originally envisioned as not having a lightsaber. I think there was intended to be a difference between a Jedi Knight and a Jedi Master. Or something along thise lines.

Looking at it after the prequels, I’d say it could go either way. We’ve no reason to think he left his saber, but we also have no evidence that he does have it.

We’ve no reason to imagine lightsaber training to have taken place on Dagobah. Not of the kind you’re taking about, anyway. More the “open yourself up to the Force....let it guide you...” type lessons, sure.

I think Rey’s lightsaber practice alone in a place that has been established to have a powerful connection to the Force, after she has been established as an incredibly powerful Force user is probably the most sognificant lightsaber training sequence we’ve ever been shown.

Doesn't that sort of make lightsaber duels pointless, though? The strongest one is almost always going to win if strength with the force = skill with the blade. Might as well just concede or run whenever someone stronger than you shows up. I always envisioned it as skill modified by the force, so both mattered.