We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[billd91]

No kidding. Luke should have given her intense training as a Jedi, including combat, just the way he got it from Yoda.

Clearly, you’re not grokking my meaning.

 

[billd91]

On top of that, the duel at the end of TFA strongly suggests that lightsaber training -- which Rey's had none of at that point -- is far less important than connection to Force, which Rey has in abundance.

She beats Kylo in lightsaber combat by using the Force (and not by mind-tricking or zapping him - with the laser blade).

Best part of that scene is we see her connection with the Force click when she goes from being scared and emotional to calm. She has the epiphany that lets her use the Force as a Jedi would, for defense, without passion but calmness.

There’s a big gulf between the first trilogy and the prequels. Luke was able to perform great feats with little formal training. Using the Force was more a state of mind. He didn’t need years of Jedi order training to do the things he did. He didn’t need intense lightsaber training, letting the Force flow through him was sufficient in the main. The third trilogy is getting us back there, away from the prequels.

 

[Morrus]

My favourite bits of Empire Strikes Back are Luke's implied off-screen training scenes that aren't in the film.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Star Wars is basically a fairy tale. When the Evil Queen is defeated and Snow White gets her Prince, of course they live happily everafter. We don't expect the prince to get estranged from her, their child turning out to become a mass-murderer. Of course, you could deliberately write a story doing exactly that - but since Snow White is public domain, there can be many stories about the aftermath, be it the one where she is long estranged from her prince or one where she has to defend the Dwarves against the Troll invasion army or where she is sucked into the real world or whatever. So there are many alternative futures, and it doesn't really matter much.

Star Wars is a Disney property. Only they get to tell stories about Luke Skywalker. So if the one they tell just doesn't quite gel because critical pieces of his character development are never really shown and earned, it will remain a broken part of franchise.


I don't have to ask myself that - I know it doesn't fit my preconceptions for the characters. The preconceptions are the result of me remembering the original trilogy and the themes layed out there. A writer has every right to subvert them - but then he better show and not just tell.

Star Wars has been compared to opera and soaps. The comparison to fairy tales is a poor choice on your part. Yes, some fairy tales end with happily ever after, some have no future presented (Hansel and Gretel, who are still lost in the woods, or the Little Mermaid, which ends in tragedy for the titular character). Operas and soaps very rarely have happily ever after endings.

You apparently sold yourself a bill of goods that the OT ended in 'happily ever after' and are disappointed your assumption wasn't shared by the writers of the new movies. This, again, isn't a complaint about bad storytelling -- you've yet to make a case for that which withstands it's own scrutiny in the hands of a different perspective -- but, again, a complaint that the story told was not to your personal liking. And that's fine, but let's get down to that being the problem rather than the special pleadings that the NT somehow tells stories badly and that's the reason you don't like them. In other words, your subjective opinion is perfectly valid, and I certainly don't begrudge you disliking the TLJ. However, this attempt to cast Star Wars as one type of story that aligns with your preconceptions when it's not clearly that kind of story (Star Wars borrows from many genres) seems a strange way to try to lend unneeded legitimacy to your opinion. It doesn't lend legitimacy -- your opinion is valid as is -- it lends a strange timidity from boldly stating that you just didn't like it because it didn't treat the characters how you wanted them to be treated.

 

[OB1]

There’s a big gulf between the first trilogy and the prequels. Luke was able to perform great feats with little formal training. Using the Force was more a state of mind. He didn’t need years of Jedi order training to do the things he did. He didn’t need intense lightsaber training, letting the Force flow through him was sufficient in the main. The third trilogy is getting us back there, away from the prequels.

Or maybe all that PT training to make the force obey your will was part of the problem that led to the Order’s downfall and why Luke’s new academy was doomed from the start?

I always go back to Luke and Obi-wan’s discussion in the Falcon when Luke learns in 2 minutes how to deflect blaster bolts blind.

“You mean it controls your actions?”

“Partially, but it also obeys your commands.”

Seems that letting the Force control your actions is fairly easy. Getting it to obey your commands is more difficult and also dangerous. Luke blew up the Death Star not by controlling the torpedo with his mind, but by letting go and trusting in the force.




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[cmad1977]

As far as Rey using a lightsaber go s, who trained Luke to the point where he could go toe to toe with Vader? Other than a brief scene with Obi-Wan in ANH, when does Luke actually train?

So why is it so unbelievable that Rey can too?


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Because girls have cooties. Duh!


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[hawkeyefan]

The only way that make believe magic can work is if there is make believe training!!

 

[pukunui]

Star Wars has been compared to opera and soaps. The comparison to fairy tales is a poor choice on your part. Yes, some fairy tales end with happily ever after, some have no future presented (Hansel and Gretel, who ae still lost in the woods, or the Little Mermaid, which ends in tragedy for the titular character). Operas and soaps very rarely have happily ever after endings.

Yes, this. As I have pointed out already in this thread, George Lucas himself has called Star Wars a soap opera.

 

[hawkeyefan]

In fairness, there is no reason that Star Wars cannot be considered an example of all kinds of fiction. Soap opera, fantasy, adventure, or fairy tale. I think it’s all of these things.

I mean....a young farm boy becomes a hero with the help of an old wizard by saving a princess from a dark lord. It really doesn't get much more fairy tale than that.

Except maybe if Vader had been a wicked step mother.

 

[Istbor]

Read a lot of posts that involve painful contortions of the OT to justify why this movie is bad. I grew up with the OT and I am for one happy to see the story finally moving along.

I saw it, and I like it a lot. It turned a lot of stuff on its ear, which is really fun to me at least. I hope, that Snoke dies without a backstory. I hope Rey's parents really were just some junkers who sold her to get offworld and away from Jakku. Those are some of the things I REALLY enjoyed about the movie. All the machinations of uber nerds for two years obliterated in about two hours.

The characters were great, and their development felt real to me.

That suicide Hyperspace jump scene. The theater where I saw if fell silent, and we all just sat in awe of what just happened.

Luke went out like a true Master. "You'll never strike me down in anger" is right. I get that some people would want to see Luke back at the lightsaber fighting, but man. Pulling the wool over his old pupils eyes and demonstrating just how much Kylo doesn't understand, and isn't yet a master of the Force (also how blind the rage of the Darkside makes you) was amazing. I had a stupid smile on my face the whole time.

Getting to see Yoda with Luke as well was great. I love that little guy, and their interactions.

I may or may not get to see it in theaters again, but I would if the chance arose.

Bring on the next.