D&D 5E Weak Saving Throws

[Savage Wombat]

Question - read the playtest docs but not played.

Saving Throws or whatever they're called now: To resist, say, petrification you make a CON check modified by your proficiency bonus. Correct?

If so - the wizard with the 10 Con is never going to get better at resisting petrification, 1st level or 20th, unless he's sinking level points into CON. At high levels you have the 3e problem of some characters auto-saving and others auto-failing.

Am I missing a modifier? Does the flat math just prevent this from being an issue? Is there a way for players to shore up these weaknesses in-system?

I'm thinking "magic item of proficiency" is going to be popular in this edition, myself.

 

[jodyjohnson]

For a low term campaign into the teens I'll probably grant 1/2 prof to non-proficient saves (+1 to +3).

For the typical 1-5 or even 1-10 campaigns with new players I think that would be an unneeded complication.

 

[the Jester]

Question - read the playtest docs but not played.

Saving Throws or whatever they're called now: To resist, say, petrification you make a CON check modified by your proficiency bonus. Correct?

If so - the wizard with the 10 Con is never going to get better at resisting petrification, 1st level or 20th, unless he's sinking level points into CON. At high levels you have the 3e problem of some characters auto-saving and others auto-failing.

I think bounded accuracy solves this problem. I would be shocked if you see a DC 30 saving throw anywhere in the game, and for that matter, a DC as high as 20 will probably be very, very rare.

 

[Wolfskin]

IIRC, in the playtest the highest Save DC was 15 for enemies such as Asmodeus, with the average value falling around 12.

 

[SteveC]

That does seem to be the idea: from my experiences, 5E tends to be a game where if you aren't good at something, you're not going to get any better, especially if it's outside of your basic class abilities. I think many would say this is a good thing.

The key is in the full character building rules: can you pick up new skills or add a proficiency bonus easily as you level? At what cost? We'll see, I suppose.

 

[Savage Wombat]

IIRC, in the playtest the highest Save DC was 15 for enemies such as Asmodeus, with the average value falling around 12.

Green Dragon (CL 8) in the preview has a DC 16 breath weapon, so I suspect Asmodeus is going to be higher. If a PC can reach DC 21 at max (right?) he'll probably be close.

 

[Boarstorm]

Green Dragon (CL 8) in the preview has a DC 16 breath weapon, so I suspect Asmodeus is going to be higher. If a PC can reach DC 21 at max (right?) he'll probably be close.

I think PCs top out at DC19.
8 base, 5 from ability, 6 from proficiency.

 

[Obryn]

Question - read the playtest docs but not played.

Saving Throws or whatever they're called now: To resist, say, petrification you make a CON check modified by your proficiency bonus. Correct?

If so - the wizard with the 10 Con is never going to get better at resisting petrification, 1st level or 20th, unless he's sinking level points into CON. At high levels you have the 3e problem of some characters auto-saving and others auto-failing.

Am I missing a modifier? Does the flat math just prevent this from being an issue? Is there a way for players to shore up these weaknesses in-system?

I'm thinking "magic item of proficiency" is going to be popular in this edition, myself.

No, I agree. It looks like a slightly less severe version of 3e's save disparities. But still, yes, it appears they didn't learn from previous editions' mistakes.

A 20th level Wizard will have a save DC of 19. Even with Advantage, that's a hard target to hit with a +0 (or god forbid - 1) stat modifier. So Hold Person, even if it allows saves every round, will be an encounter ender vs. Fighters and other beefy targets.

 

[fjw70]

I am a little concerned about saves. I may just let all PCs be proficient with all saves.

 

[Klaus]

Question - read the playtest docs but not played.

Saving Throws or whatever they're called now: To resist, say, petrification you make a CON check modified by your proficiency bonus. Correct?

If so - the wizard with the 10 Con is never going to get better at resisting petrification, 1st level or 20th, unless he's sinking level points into CON. At high levels you have the 3e problem of some characters auto-saving and others auto-failing.

Am I missing a modifier? Does the flat math just prevent this from being an issue? Is there a way for players to shore up these weaknesses in-system?

I'm thinking "magic item of proficiency" is going to be popular in this edition, myself.

I'm sure there will be ways to shore up a weak save. Using an Ability Score Increase seems to be the most Basic one.