Weapon damage scaling and multiclassing

[Xeviat]

Forget 5/5/5/5, a 5/5 has three attacks earlier than the Fighter, with more diversity to boot. That's not right.

1 level earlier. The fighter also has 1 extra ASI.


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[Yunru]

What about my original idea? To grant everyone +1[W] at 5, 11, and 17, like cantrip scaling, and give the warrior classes different abilities instead of just extra attack. It would raise chances of doing zero damage, which is problematic, but it would increase opportunity attacks and help multiclassers.


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I like it, although I'm sure my players wouldn't. The fighter, at least, likes making multiple attacks. Thanks to my TWF tweak he's really got into the "whirling death" image.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Hello everyone. From day one, I didn't like the way Extra Attack worked. It hurts multiclass warriors when multiclass spellcasters got a big improvement this time around. Simply having Extra Attack stack could ALMOST work, but a 5/5/5/5 would end up with 5 attacks and that would be too much (now if every class had a level 0 ...)

I'm a little surprised that, after fixing how casters worked under a 3e-style multi-classing, they'd go and make the exact same mistake with non-casters. It'd be like BAB not stacking in 3e. Bizarre.

What about my original idea? To grant everyone +1[W] at 5, 11, and 17, like cantrip scaling, and give the warrior classes different abilities instead of just extra attack.

Multiple attacks have always been problematic, so it looks like the start of a good idea. You could also still give extra attacks and let them stack, but have each 'hit' add +1[W] to a single damage roll vs that target, instead of each hit getting its own damage roll with all modifiers.

Another thought: You could 'push' Extra Attack for everyone but the fighter, and just let it stack. 5/5/5/5 is problematic. Even pushing them one level'd give you 5/6/6 (or 6/6/6!), push 'em two and at worst, 5/7/7. More than that and it's 5/8 or 8/8 or more, 5/10 - no problem at all. Plus, it'd make the fighter's 'thing' actually matter from 5th level. Best at Fighting, indeed.


You could even do both.

 

[Xeviat]

I just ran some quick numbers. Replacing the fighter's extra attack at 1st level with Weapon Mastery for +1 to hit, +2 damage is only slightly weaker than extra attack (if you have Duelist damage bonus double at level 5). What else could we draw on from the past?


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[zaratan]

why need to be 5/5? This multiclass rule is balanced as hell, just make a 6/4 and forget all your problems.

spellcaster suffer way more with multiclass, more than 3 levels means forget 9th lvl spell slot. A 5/5/5/5 spellcaster is way useless, simply don't make a 5/5/5/5 character.

 

[Xeviat]

But at least spellcasters get something. Their cantrips still scale, and they still get high level spell slots. Low level spells don't scale as well as high level spells, but they still have value.


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[Tony Vargas]

But at least spellcasters get something. Their cantrips still scale, and they still get high level spell slots. Low level spells don't scale as well as high level spells, but they still have value.

There's also a granularity issue. Each caster level stacks, Caster 8 + OtherCaster 1 = MCCaster 9.

Extra Attack is chunkier. Same problem with ASIs, actually. They tried a little too hard to make each class progression different, I think. Unneeded complexity.

 

[TwoSix]

What about my original idea? To grant everyone +1[W] at 5, 11, and 17, like cantrip scaling, and give the warrior classes different abilities instead of just extra attack. It would raise chances of doing zero damage, which is problematic, but it would increase opportunity attacks and help multiclassers.

It's a better way to do it (it also helps with issues around GWM and Sharpshooter), at the cost of listening to online complaints about how you put too much 4e back into 5e.

 

[zaratan]

But at least spellcasters get something. Their cantrips still scale, and they still get high level spell slots. Low level spells don't scale as well as high level spells, but they still have value.


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Cantrips except eldrich blast, booming blade and gfb aren't really usefull. And you don't need to be full caster to get the last two and you only need 2 lvl deep for the first one.

And a 5/5/5/5 spellcaster probably will need Cha + Int or Wis build (with decent Con and Dex).

Many double extra attack builds already are very good options (most that mix fullcaster with martials), even with that one "useless" lvl. You'll need to check many variables to make things balanced.

But if you have any idea I'll help with to see if's possible to abuse of this

 

[Xeviat]

But if you have any idea I'll help with to see if's possible to abuse of this

Power gamers are great to have look at things. Hah!


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