Weapon Damage

[Zurai]

But there seems to be a bit more than hit locations here. More that damage should be based on how "well" you hit. So that a hit right on the AC might only deal 1d6 points of damage, a hit of AC+5 could deal 1d8 points of damage, AC+10 dealing 1d10 points of damage (or something similar to that).

There's already a feat for this.

It's called Power Attack.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

There's already a feat for this.

It's called Power Attack.

That's more of a gamble, and due to its 2 handed bias and ranged inapplicability doesn't really address the desire in any comprehensive sense.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I've had a similar thought about weapons and damage too. But instead of hit location/variable damage I've always had this nag about why certain weapons should naturally be more deadly than any other given weapon and thus have different damage dice.

I mean if you run a person through with a longsword or a bastard sword, why should one weapon do 1d8+X and the other do 1d10+X? They both are going to kill a person the same. One could argue that that particular instance is represented in the moment a character is reduced to 0 or less HP. But still, why should a bastardsword, or greataxe be more 'deadlier' than a longsword, rapier or even a dagger?
Thus instead of assigning each weapon a specific die type how about weapons starts at a base of d4 (or whatever... I just made that up for sake of discussion). Then through Weapon Focus type feats a character could expand the max damage of the weapons they 'train' in higher and get higher die types for weapons.

I'm highly in favor of just going for true abstractness in combat. I'm tired of the round and round on how a greatsword should get a higher damage die, a greater strength mod to damage and double power attack because thats just realistic then getting "well, the system is really ABSTRACT" when you ask why a rapier can't get more attacks....

BAB could be either accompanied by or expanded to include a damage rating by class, which could be increased by feats, including "style feats" which require you to wield a particular weapon to get the benefits. But in general, I'd like to see weapon choice be an entirely stylistic choice.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I've had a similar thought about weapons and damage too. But instead of hit location/variable damage I've always had this nag about why certain weapons should naturally be more deadly than any other given weapon and thus have different damage dice.

I mean if you run a person through with a longsword or a bastard sword, why should one weapon do 1d8+X and the other do 1d10+X? They both are going to kill a person the same. One could argue that that particular instance is represented in the moment a character is reduced to 0 or less HP. But still, why should a bastardsword, or greataxe be more 'deadlier' than a longsword, rapier or even a dagger?

At moderate to high level, they're not, eh? Modifiers swamp weapon damage. But that's abstracted, again, from the fact that high level characters simply know where to hit you, and so on.

In the hands of a low level character (read: novice)... anyone can get lucky swinging a greataxe and take you out of the battle, but even I have had enough basic self defense and martial arts training to turn aside another novice with a dagger, at least assuring that the damage is superficial (shallow, if nasty forearm damage and so on). But someone who is skilled will turn aside my feeble fumblings with ease and make that dagger strike count. But even someone swinging a battleaxe in a circle wily-nily with no skill whatsoever is likely to end my day quick, while a skilled martial artist/swordsman/what-have-you will have better ways of working around that flailing.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

At moderate to high level, they're not, eh? Modifiers swamp weapon damage. But that's abstracted, again, from the fact that high level characters simply know where to hit you, and so on.

yes and no - even at high levels some modifiers such as power attack are still dependant broadly on the weapon wielded. The high level power attacking fighter who is attacking you with a +3 bastard sword for 1d10 +3 +9 +20 damage is attacking you for 1d8 +3 +6 +10 with a +3 longsword or 1d6 +3 +6 +0 with a +3 short sword. If you want to use a particular weapon effectively you sometimes have to build your entire character around that weapon. Not around being a melee fighter, but around being a rapier fighter.

 

[Storyteller01]

Hit locations are not, imho, a categorically bad idea for games in general. They just don't mesh well with the hit point mechanic. There are games that use forms of hit location that work well (say, the original Deadlands or Godlike), but the abstract hit points make hit locations problematic.

Sorry if this sounds like a sales pitch...


Paizo has the critical hit deck. WHile it isn't any more realistic, you trade out hp damage for some gruesome effect. It also works with magic effects (those that roll to hit anyway...). Might be worth looking into.

 

[mmadsen]

So I was just thinking, is there a reason why weapon damage is variable?

In real life, damage is extremely variable.

After all if you are shot with 9mm hand gun it will cause the same amount of damage every time, it really depends on where the round hits you as to how life threatening it is. So wouldn't you be able to reflect this better with a range of "to hit" instead? Say a Nat 20 is always a head shot, DC = abdomen, DC+1 = Torso, DC-1 = Extremity?

With firearms, which penetrate people quite well but with a fairly narrow wound channel, yes, placement is key. Damage is still extremely variable though.

What you've argued for is damage modified by accuracy and not just weapon size and speed.

 

[JDJblatherings]

What you've argued for is damage modified by accuracy and not just weapon size and speed.

agreeign with you just wanted to mention-

D&D already has damage modified by accuracy in any feat with a damage bonus and in the ciritical hit mechanic, a skilled combatant has a better chance of actually causing a crit on a threat.

 

[I'm A Banana]

BAB could be either accompanied by or expanded to include a damage rating by class, which could be increased by feats, including "style feats" which require you to wield a particular weapon to get the benefits. But in general, I'd like to see weapon choice be an entirely stylistic choice.

FFZ embraces this idea. Weapons are more flavor, though FFZ does let you get different flavor form different weapons (rapiers get more hits, instruments use CHA instead of STR or DEX), if you'd like it to mean something.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

If you dig for it there's an entire weapons as special effects thread somewhere in house rules quite a few pages back. It ties weapon damage to the character rather than the usual method and it's fairly interesting. Personally I just give extra damage that increases based on BAB.