Weapon Enhancement...Force
- Thread starter kreynolds
- Start date
Ok...I give up. Can someone enlighten me on where there is a definition of what the {Force} subtype actually does? I can find no definition anywhere except the brief mention of "Descriptors" on p. 152 of the PHB and in the reference to "Force Effect" in the Mordenkainen's Sword spell description. However Spiritual Weapon which is also a Force designated weapon spell - says NOTHING about any "Force Effects."
Clarification??
I was under the impression {Force} was just another type of damage descriptor for offensive spells.
Clarification??
I was under the impression {Force} was just another type of damage descriptor for offensive spells.
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Nifft
Penguin Herder
kreynolds said:
That's where you're wrong.
Magic Missile --> Force Damage. Look at the implications of that: must overcome SR, but not DR, and it doesn't work in an anti-magic field.
Wall of Force --> Force Material. Implications: no damage -- in fact, ANY material in its way destroys the WoF, no interaction with SR or DR in any way, can't be dispelled but CAN be disintegrated (as any material).
-- Nifft
kreynolds
First Post
Nifft said:
No. I'm not. Wall of Force is a force effect. Force damage bypasses DR. Force damage is a force effect. There is no stretch and there is no mistake. If you're arguing about something else, then let me know.
Nifft said:
That's right. It's also a force effect.
Nifft said:
You're loosing me here.
Nifft said:
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I chose force damage because its a force effect. That is not a mistake. That is also not a stretch. Why wouldn't a force effect deal force damage? Should magic missile deal fire damage instead?
If I'm wrong, then you better go and fix flaming weapons. Why? Because flaming weapons have fireball as one of the possible spell prerequisites. So, if you're going to interpret this that literally, then that means all flaming weapons explode in a 20-foot radius ball of fire every time they hit. But, that's not how they work, so that must be too much of a literal interpretation. It's also worth nothing that flaming weapons, and the others, aren't subject to SR either.
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Magic Missile bypasses DR because its a spell, not because its a force effect.
Id say force damage doesn't bypass DR and be done with it.
Then you have an indestructable weapon that can hit ethereal and incoporeal creatures, survives antimagic fields, and maybe is lighter as was suggested. Sounds like a +2 to me.
On the other hand, I think I like the idea of considering force a material more than a magic enhancement. Basically its hardness is infinite, and has a natural enhancement bonus for bypassing DR (I never liked that adamantite didn't bypass DR bs).
Id say force damage doesn't bypass DR and be done with it.
Then you have an indestructable weapon that can hit ethereal and incoporeal creatures, survives antimagic fields, and maybe is lighter as was suggested. Sounds like a +2 to me.
On the other hand, I think I like the idea of considering force a material more than a magic enhancement. Basically its hardness is infinite, and has a natural enhancement bonus for bypassing DR (I never liked that adamantite didn't bypass DR bs).
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hi all! 
I am a little confused by this perhaps someone can clarify.
Firstly, if the weapon is made of the same force as per a wall of force then why would it have any special abilities at all (other than its inability to be sundered)? I agree it would be lighter and therefore deal less damage of course.
Isn't the effect you are attempting to duplicate the lightsabre (?); which is positive energy based rather than force based, is it not!? Something WotC tried with the Brilliant Energy weapon special ability. Likewise isn't Magic Missile positive energy.
I am a little confused by this perhaps someone can clarify.
Firstly, if the weapon is made of the same force as per a wall of force then why would it have any special abilities at all (other than its inability to be sundered)? I agree it would be lighter and therefore deal less damage of course.
Isn't the effect you are attempting to duplicate the lightsabre (?); which is positive energy based rather than force based, is it not!? Something WotC tried with the Brilliant Energy weapon special ability. Likewise isn't Magic Missile positive energy.
Again, I think this can be easily summed up by using existing rules rather than aking up new ones and extrapolating rules form undefined terms mentioned here & there in other spells/abilities.
I would use the existing Force Weapon spells as the basis for this.
Spiritual Weapon
Mordenkainen's Sword
Gives two levels of power to a purely Force Weapon, Lesser and Greater. That or just create the afore mentioned addition of Force Damage to an exisint weapon like any other addition of a Damage Discriptor (Acid, Fire, Cold, Sonic, etc.).
I would use the existing Force Weapon spells as the basis for this.
Spiritual Weapon
Mordenkainen's Sword
Gives two levels of power to a purely Force Weapon, Lesser and Greater. That or just create the afore mentioned addition of Force Damage to an exisint weapon like any other addition of a Damage Discriptor (Acid, Fire, Cold, Sonic, etc.).
kreynolds
First Post
Upper_Krust said:
For the same reason that a flaming weapon doesn't explode in a 20-foot radius burst.
Upper_Krust said:
No, no. I'll leave that up to Star Wars. No lightsabre's in my D&D games. No sir.
Basically, I just wanted to make a new enhancement, but instead of starting small and working my way up, I F'd up and started to big. Nifft ended up suggesting pretty much the best idea so far. Just make a material that essentially yielded a really sharp edge, and when coupled with the weight reduction, it made perfect sense that minimum damage would go up while maximum damage would go down.
Again, thanks for your invaluable input, Nifft!
