Weapon Finesse and the 'skinny end' of a quarterstaff

[Thurbane]

Unless you take the Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting feat (Complete Adventurer), and fight with two one-handed weapons - the PA bonus damage will apply to both.

-Hyp.

Oh wow!

So that means that, say, a 12th level fighter using a double-sword with the OTWF feat and PA could potentially get 12 points of PA on each end, or 24 points for each?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Oh wow!

So that means that, say, a 12th level fighter using a double-sword with the OTWF feat and PA could potentially get 12 points of PA on each end, or 24 points for each?

No, because Power Attack says to treat a double weapon as one-handed and light, so he'll get 12 points for the primary end, and zero for the off-end.

With OTWF, you don't use a two-bladed sword; you use two longswords.

-Hyp.

 

[mvincent]

No. This applies to any use of a double weapon. When you calculate your penalties for two-weapon fighting, you use the type that applies to a one-handed weapon and a light weapon, but you're not actually using a light weapon, so Weapon Finesse can't apply.

From the 3.5 FAQ (if desired):
"A double weapon can be wielded in two ways, either as a
one-handed weapon and a light weapon, or as a single twohanded
weapon. Either way, it follows the normal rules for
using such weapons.
Wielding as Two Weapons: The primary end (the “onehanded
weapon”) adds your Strength modifier to damage, and
the secondary end (the “light weapon”) adds one-half your
Strength bonus to damage. When using Power Attack, bonus
damage applies only to the primary end. If you have Weapon
Finesse, you may add your Dexterity modifier instead of your
Strength modifier to attack rolls with the secondary end (but
not with the primary end)."

 

[Kmart Kommando]

The FAQ is wrong..again. It is a lot. you get used to it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The FAQ is wrong..again. It is a lot. you get used to it.

The FAQ answer is all fine as long as you consider the "Normally, ..." clause in Power Attack to be globally applicable.

Given that the alternative is 1.5x Str bonus while TWFing, and +4 to Sunder checks with the off-end, and so forth, I'm inclined to read it the same way the FAQ does.

-Hyp.

 

[Thurbane]

No, because Power Attack says to treat a double weapon as one-handed and light, so he'll get 12 points for the primary end, and zero for the off-end.

With OTWF, you don't use a two-bladed sword; you use two longswords.

-Hyp.

...I'm a little confused - I think you're saying that with OTWF you only get 1x PA bonus on each end, and not 1.5x PA bonus. Is that right? Or do you get 1x PA on primary end and 0x PA on secondary end?

 

[Hypersmurf]

...I'm a little confused - I think you're saying that with OTWF you only get 1x PA bonus on each end, and not 1.5x PA bonus. Is that right? Or do you get 1x PA on primary end and 0x PA on secondary end?

Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting allows you to wield a one-handed weapon in your off-hand while taking penalties as though it were light.

With a one-handed weapon in one hand, you get 1-for-1 Power Attack. So with, say, two longswords, you can gain the Power Attack benefit with both.

Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting has no effect on a double weapon, since the off-end is already considered light. You can't choose to treat it as a combination of two one-handed weapons, with or without the OTWF feat; if you use both ends of a double weapon, one end is considered one-handed, and the other light... so you can't apply Power Attack bonus damage to both ends of a double weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[Thurbane]

...

 

[Thurbane]

OK, I gotcha now. I was getting a little muddled.

...but, say if you had OTWF, and two bastard swords, you could use PA with both, since neither is a light weapon, yes?

 

[Jhulae]

The FAQ is wrong..again. It is a lot. you get used to it.

Except the FAQ isn't wrong.

"An unarmed strike is always considered light, as is an off-hand attack with a double weapon." (RC, page 148)

So, with regard to the OP's question: You have to take the penalties to get your Dex modifier on the off-hand attacks with a double weapon, since it wouldn't be an off-hand attack without using TWF.