Weapon Finesse and the 'skinny end' of a quarterstaff

[Hypersmurf]

Except the FAQ isn't wrong.

"An unarmed strike is always considered light, as is an off-hand attack with a double weapon." (RC, page 148)

It sounds like they've cleaned up the ambiguity, then, removing the potential for two different readings - up until a couple of weeks ago, it could be read in different ways

So, with regard to the OP's question: You have to take the penalties to get your Dex modifier on the off-hand attacks with a double weapon, since it wouldn't be an off-hand attack without using TWF.

Unless they've changed the definition of off-hand in the Rules Compendium as well, your off-hand is your weaker or less-dextrous hand (usually the left) according to the PHB - so you can make an off-hand attack with a single weapon, if it's held in your weaker or less-dextrous hand (usually the left).

Of course, since a double weapon is held in both hands (unless, perhaps, you're a Large creature with a Medium quarterstaff held in your off-hand), you generally wouldn't make an off-hand attack with it unless using both ends. Except...

According to the FAQ's take on greatsword and armor spikes, for example, it's also conceivable one could make a primary attack with armor spikes and an off-hand attack with a greatsword; similarly, one could also make a primary attack with armor spikes and an off-hand attack with a two-bladed sword held in both hands. Per that Rules Compendium quote, it would appear that this off-hand attack would mean the two-bladed sword (a double weapon) would be considered a light weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[Jhulae]

Unless they've changed the definition of off-hand in the Rules Compendium as well, your off-hand is your weaker or less-dextrous hand (usually the left) according to the PHB - so you can make an off-hand attack with a single weapon, if it's held in your weaker or less-dextrous hand (usually the left).

Of course, since a double weapon is held in both hands (unless, perhaps, you're a Large creature with a Medium quarterstaff held in your off-hand), you generally wouldn't make an off-hand attack with it unless using both ends. Except...

According to the FAQ's take on greatsword and armor spikes, for example, it's also conceivable one could make a primary attack with armor spikes and an off-hand attack with a greatsword; similarly, one could also make a primary attack with armor spikes and an off-hand attack with a two-bladed sword held in both hands. Per that Rules Compendium quote, it would appear that this off-hand attack would mean the two-bladed sword (a double weapon) would be considered a light weapon.

-Hyp.

The only mention I can see so far to 'off-hand' is in the TWF rules, but granted, I haven't read the whole book yet. It's also not in the index. I'll do some more research and post if I find anything. (New info added below)

And yes, it does mean that the off-hand attacks with the two bladed sword, orc double axe, dire flail, and the like are all considered light for weapon finesse and power attack and such.

It also looks like Light Weapons deal normal strength damage when wielded one handed and only half damage in the 'off-hand'. So, any time you use a double weapon as a light weapon in an 'off-hand attack', such as when trying to get weapon finesse, it only does half strength damage.

I'll make a separate post about something else I found in the weapon damage.

 

[mvincent]

The FAQ is wrong..again. It is a lot. you get used to it.

I specifically put "if desired" in my FAQ references to avoid such negativity. Despite condoned maligning on this particular board, most players find such quotes useful.

 

[Hypersmurf]

mvincent, please look for ways to make your point that don't come across as a personal attack on another user.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[mvincent]

mvincent, please look for ways to make your point that don't come across as a personal attack on another user.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

Fixed. Put pronouns back to their original in Kmart Kommando's quote.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Fixed. Put pronouns back to their original in Kmart Kommando's quote.

'ppreciate it

-Hyp.