Weapon Focus & Implements

[Griogre]

I've got a staff wizard with a +1 magic staff and Weapon Focus Staff. I know if the wizard uses the staff as an implement he gets the enhancement bonus of +1. For some reason I think he can't use the Weapon Focus to add to his damage but I can't find a rule on that.

Can someone point me at a rule either for or against using weapon focus to add to damage when the staff is being used as an implement?

 

[Morthos]

Look at any power. After the writing "at will/ encounter/etc" it will often
be followed by "weapon" or "implement". If you are using a power that
does not say "weapon" I would say the player cannot utilize the weapon focus benefit since the staff is not being used as a weapon.

 

[Bolongo]

Look at any power. After the writing "at will/ encounter/etc" it will often
be followed by "weapon" or "implement". If you are using a power that
does not say "weapon" I would say the player cannot utilize the weapon focus benefit since the staff is not being used as a weapon.

By any reasonable interpretation, you are absolutely correct.

However, according to Customer Service and the Character Builder, reason need not apply...

 

[Lord Ernie]

This was how things went at first. However, since some characters use weapons as implements, and have implement powers that use weapon dice (the Swordmage was the first of the bunch), things could get really confusing really fast. You get the damage bonus on weapon damage rolls, but does that count when the power says implement (and yet uses [W])? Does it count when the power says weapon, but says d8 instead of a weapon die?

So they just scrapped the rule.

 

[CapnZapp]

So they just scrapped the rule.

It would be really nice if you could give a page reference for that claim.

thanks.

 

[junkielectric]

Its on a response from customer service that's been floating around for awhile (so no page number available).

 

[Prism]

It would be really nice if you could give a page reference for that claim.

thanks.

Its here, number 21

Answer

 

[Wardo]

This was how things went at first. However, since some characters use weapons as implements, and have implement powers that use weapon dice (the Swordmage was the first of the bunch), things could get really confusing really fast. You get the damage bonus on weapon damage rolls, but does that count when the power says implement (and yet uses [W])? Does it count when the power says weapon, but says d8 instead of a weapon die?

Attaching the bonus to the weapon keyword (as they later did with Implement and Weapon expertise) would not have been confusing. The whole point of keywords is to eliminate confusion. They simply chose not to errata the feat.

This is one of my least favorite rulings so far; it's definitely a big kick in the teeth to the guy who wrote the Elemental Specialist swordmage article (what rational swordmage would pick elemental damage feats now?), and to non-staff wizards and non-dagger Warlocks.

 

[Obryn]

This is one of my least favorite rulings so far; it's definitely a big kick in the teeth to the guy who wrote the Elemental Specialist swordmage article (what rational swordmage would pick elemental damage feats now?), and to non-staff wizards and non-dagger Warlocks.

If you want to talk kick-in-the-teeth to non-Staff Wizards and Invokers, look no further than the Staff of Ruin.

Needless to say, any character I make who can use that thing, will. "Why, yes, I'd love to take an extra +X to every damage roll and Xd10 criticals in exchange for a weak and possibly-lame daily power. That seems perfectly fair! Where do I sign?"

EDIT: As for reasoning behind that ruling, my guess is that it will have something to do with an Implement Focus feat in Arcane Power. This just gives it to Staff-wielders a little early.

-O

 

[DracoSuave]

1) Wardo's avatar is made of win.

2) Weapon Focus doesn't mention weapon attacks or the weapon keyword in it. As well, there are multiple classes that use a weapon group or specific weapon as an implement:

Wizards, Druids, Invokers and Sorcerers use staffs (staff is a weapon group)
Sorcerers use daggers
Swordmages use light blades and heavy blades.

This, of course, ignores magic weapons that have a property allowing their use as an implement, like songblades, pact blades, and holy avengers.

The weapon/implement seperation only make sense when the list of implement types and the list of weapon types are mutually exclusive. They aren't, however, and they can design more classes when the lines are allowed to blur a little.

The only problem is the lack of 'Implement Focus' as a feat--something that can be rectified.