weapons that do stat damage

[Sanackranib]

has anybody had a pc who wanted to have a weapon that does stat damage (ie: the shadow touch spell in relics and rituals) I have a character who is looking into doing this figure it would be temp. stat damage that would return after 8 hours the whip (weapon in question) would do its regular damage +4 points of STR per hit, Fort save for 1/2. the DM is saying it would be a +2 equivelent so it will cost the same as a +3 weapon, +1 initial and +2 adjustment. (which I'm ok with) I'm just curious if anybody else out there has already gone this route?

 

[Stalker0]

has anybody had a pc who wanted to have a weapon that does stat damage (ie: the shadow touch spell in relics and rituals) I have a character who is looking into doing this figure it would be temp. stat damage that would return after 8 hours the whip (weapon in question) would do its regular damage +4 points of STR per hit, Fort save for 1/2. the DM is saying it would be a +2 equivelent so it will cost the same as a +3 weapon, +1 initial and +2 adjustment. (which I'm ok with) I'm just curious if anybody else out there has already gone this route?

I'd say that's a damn nasty weapon, considering it ALWAYS does str damage. Hell, that could paralyse many wizards with just 3 hits.

I'd say if it was fort negates it would be a little better, but right now I'd say that a +4 adjustment at least.

 

[Crothian]

I'd require it to be fort negate ands still it'd be at least a +4 weapon enhancement. 1d2+4 points of strength drain is really nasty.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

would do its regular damage +4 points of STR per hit,

If it were restricted to only dealing the Str damage on attacks that actually deal (subdual) damage, then I could see this as a +2 or +3 enhancement.

If it always does it, even against armored foes, then yeah it's +4 easy.

 

[Sanackranib]

stat damage

it would do its regular damage. yes its nasty and it IS a wizard slayer - specifically tailered for use aginst the Drow. it would do $ points of STR damage (but they could FORT save and only take 2 points) this is only about 1/3 as powerfull as shadow touch (lev 3 spell) can get which maxes out at 1-6 +6 save for 1/2. in addition anyone killed by the spell but not the weapon raises as a shadow in 1-4+1 rounds under the casters control. the weapon would do temp STR damage which would render a victom helpless at 0 but not kill them, also the STR loss would all return after 8 hours.

Nasty - yes it is. but it wouldn't thake high strenght characters out much faster then doing damage. The whip is going to be made out of Shadow Dreagon hide. I expect to do many GOOD things with it (my character is lev4 rogue/lev 2 fighter/lev 1 lasher/lev 1 temple raider -going for the indianna jones feel)
we are going through a 3e conversion of aginst the giants and vault of the drow.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Regular damage to an attribute. Not a chance in Baator. Never Ever Ever.

Let me see, let's take a lasher with a +2 shadow touch mighty [+4] whip dagger an 18 strength (pretty easy to get at mid levels), and weapon specialization, point blank shot, precise shot, and rapid shot as a sample character.

At the lower range of mid levels that's 3 attacks at a high attack bonus for 1d6+9 points of strength damage each. Assuming all hit (not a very unrealistic assumption considering the attack bonusses ranged attackers get), he will deal 3d6+27 points of strength damage per round--3d3+12 if the foe makes all his saves. So, assuming the foe makes all his saves, that's still an average of 19 points of strength damage per round. A bull's strengthed raging half-orc barbarian with a modified strength of 26 will be dropped to 98 lb weakling status in one round and killed with one more blow. Dragons and bullettes will be too weak to lift their own body mass after one round against such a weapon even if they make all their saves. And even Titans which miss as much as one save would probably be dead in a single round.

Putting the ability on a melee weapon wouldn't be much better.

Consider that the rogue's crippling blow special ability (10th level minimum) deals a mere 1 point of strength damage in limited circumstances and you'll see how powerful this is. (If one were to consider that a ring of evasion is 25k and improved evasion is an ability the rogue could select instead of crippling blow, 50k might be a reasonable estimate for a Crippling blow item. Since this is not limited by circumstance like crippling blow, make it 75k base. And then since it's easily capable of dealing 10 times the strength damage, let's multiply by 10. (Although considering other damage bonusses are generally exponential, we might want 75,000^10gp) So, if it were allowed (and I wouldn't; such an item would wreck any campaign it got into), it should cost a minimum of 750,000 gp.

For a more reasonable ability, I'd say +4 bonus, deals 2 points of strength damage fort save DC 18 for half or +2 bonus deals one point of strength damage fort save DC 17 negates.

 

[Sanackranib]

whip

The DM ruled that the whip is a dex based melee weapon. can be used up to 15' for neeek attacks but not for AoO's. the Stat damage would be limited to 4 save for 1/2 or -2 STR per hit. it would also do regular non stat damage. also the feat chains listed above are not allowed for the whip in this game basically to keep down the number of attacks. currently my character gets 2 attacks per round and barring haste it will be at least 5 more levels before that changes. my next levels will be 9- temple raider
10 -lasher, 11 rogue, 12 temple raider. current bab is +6/+1 so it will only go up 3 in the next 4 levels. I only plan to go to level 4 lasher but we will see.

At the lower range of mid levels that's 3 attacks at a high attack bonus for 1d6+9 points of strength damage each. Assuming all hit (not a very unrealistic assumption considering the attack bonusses ranged attackers get), he will deal 3d6+27 points of strength damage per round--3d3+12 if the foe makes all his saves. So, assuming the foe makes all his saves, that's still an average of 19 points of strength damage per round. A bull's strengthed raging half-orc barbarian with a modified strength of 26 will be dropped to 98 lb weakling status in one round and killed with one more blow. Dragons and bullettes will be too weak to lift their own body mass after one round against such a weapon even if they make all their saves. And even Titans which miss as much as one save would probably be dead in a single round.

so while the whip does both regular and stat damage it does not do stat damage as regular damage. it would do its regular and sneak attack damage (if applicible) and in addition do either 4 or 2 with a successfull FOTR save of STR damage. that means at my current level of attacks I have the possibility of doing 4 - 8 points of STR per round as well as the regular damage I will inflict
the whole idea is to slow down both giants (by reducing their damage by reducing their STR) and eliminating spellcasters by droping their STR score to 0 so that they are helpless

 

[Sanackranib]

stat loss

We al agree that this would be a nasty weapon, but the initial question remains: Has anyone else done this in their game? with craft arms and armor there are many spells that can be placed in weapons and armor with far reaching effects. currently there is a thread in general discussion that asks about a helm of prot. vs. evil. while not always usefull this will also have a lot of game impligations. I was just curious if this sort of thing had already come up in a prior game and what the result was. if it hasnt then I guess when I do it then it should be a good test. I wonder if it will be a moot point aginst spellcasters since if I can flank them the sneek attack damage might well kill them befor the STAT damage becomes a problem (or it could be simotanious)

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: stat loss

I haven't done this in a game. It would be very nasty though. If you don't add normal damage to the str damage, I would still say at least a +4 bonus, and fort (DC 15) negates. Without the save negates factor, this would be a no-brainer to take over speed. With the save negating it entirely, it would still be competitive just because of the number of saves you could force and the dramatic effect of failed saves.

As an aside, I should point out that you actually can't flank with a ranged weapon (such as a whip or a whip dagger).

We al agree that this would be a nasty weapon, but the initial question remains: Has anyone else done this in their game? with craft arms and armor there are many spells that can be placed in weapons and armor with far reaching effects. currently there is a thread in general discussion that asks about a helm of prot. vs. evil. while not always usefull this will also have a lot of game impligations. I was just curious if this sort of thing had already come up in a prior game and what the result was. if it hasnt then I guess when I do it then it should be a good test. I wonder if it will be a moot point aginst spellcasters since if I can flank them the sneek attack damage might well kill them befor the STAT damage becomes a problem (or it could be simotanious)

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

That is an insanely powerful item. Easily epic. Look at these 2 magic items. Rod of wilting (easy fort save, a bit less total damage), and rapier of wounding (limited # of uses per day.) Still neither approaches the4 stat damage that would be delt by this weapon.