We're Going To Do Return to the Tomb of Horrors and One Player has Freaked Out!

[ThirdWizard]

Actually, I rather think he is right and you ought to re-read his post. When you do a straigt conversion to 3e, you can't expect level ranges to hold. The winter wight's 3e write-up, for example, is an epic level creature. So there are really three options:

1) Use a higher level guideline, and enhance all the other creatures to match.
2) Use the original level guidelines, but nerf the creature statistics to fit.
3) Run it blindly as is, and make it even MORE of a meatgrinder.

I would not consider option #3 as a faithful conversion, because it inherently shifts the danger of the adventure.

#3 is not a faithful conversion. Neither is #1. #2 is a faithful guideline. So, what is a killer encounter for a group of 14th level PCs stays a killer encounter for a group of 14th level PCs. Your oppinion seems to be that the DM in question is going to turn a mega-meatgrinder into a balanced dungeon crawl.

I completely disagree. Of course, you can take RttToH and make it balanced. You could do that in 2E if you wanted, toning down everything, toning down out save or die traps, etc. But why on earth would you assume the DM has done this? The point of the module was to kill the PCs. That was why it was written. Why would the DM pick such a meatgrinder and turn it into something it was never meant to be?

We know a few things. We know that the DM is a let it fall where it lands type. We also know that he waved the module at the players. He was, to my guess, trying to scare the players. And it worked on one of them to great effect.

The player needs to ask the DM what's up. It's a play-style issue that's in question here. It sounds like the game has been fairly character driven if the guy is still on his 1st character. He wasn't signed up for a hackfest, and now the DM wants to run one. The DM can freely change gears mid-campaign if he wants, but it sounds like this isn't the player's cup of tea.

 

[Bryan898]

Since I have no idea what "Angelfire Armor" is then I guess I'm not twinked enough.

It was a joke about being twinked, but Angelfire Armor is from tbe BoED, basically permanent death ward.

I can't quite grasp the overall story arc from the story hour but you'd think that before someone goes into the Tomb of Horrors that they realize it is the source for the end of the world.

Well... not necessarily. They might get to the Tomb of Horrors knowing that something is up, but not knowing just how dangerous Acerack's plans are. A "how far does the bunny hole go" type of scenario.

 

[Sarellion]

Our choices at the moment in terms of things that need to be done in the world are:
1) - Start an expedition to retrieve the worlds most massive ruby from a red dragon of legend
2) - Enter Chuvash better known as the City of Liches (literally) and start depopulating
3) - Hunt down one of the parties hated enemies thus causing civil war as well as attracting the attention of every bounty hunter in the west of Beltratia or...
4) - Investigate some undead occurences that have led us to an abandoned structure where a powerful but secluded wizard used to live that seems to be presently overrun by giants.

As you can see, the fourth option seems to be the easiest one at the moment. I suppose this is why we're trying to play in character and not go on out of campaign information.
I mean... is the place really that bad?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

These are their options at the moment. They want to take no.4, the tomb because it seems to be the least dangerous to their characters knowledge.

 

[Qwillion]

Experianced Dm: Ran This 5 Times

I have run this adventure with 5 seperate groups.

by the end of the adventure half of the characteres had died once, half of those died twice.

This is the real point, this is a game, it is a game where death is not permanent, Third Edition even more so. True Ressurection, Wish and Miricle make this players concerns laughable. The amount of treasure available in the Tomb (much less the Return) makes this quite possible to get any character back, also the amount of EXP a third edition party would achieve should put them tio the 17-19th level when THE PARTY CLERIC CAN CAST IT. (there are monsters fromt the epic level handbook in the adventure)


In the end this is up to the DM, personally I would tell the player to grow up, it's just a character! If however the DM would like to be a nice guy and compromise with the player, let him retire the character (ie. never play in my game again) and let him write up a new character just as if his character had died. (ie. in my game that means one level below everyone else, with wealth by level gear.)

The point is to have continuing fun, if this player cannot have fun maybe it's time for a new adventure or a new player.

 

[Psion]

Your oppinion seems to be that the DM in question is going to turn a mega-meatgrinder into a balanced dungeon crawl.

Actually, I stated quite explicitly earlier I have no idea what the GM will do.

That said, I'll renew my point that RttToH =/= ToH. RttToH is not a mega-meatgrinder. Just a mini-meatgrinder.

The point of the module was to kill the PCs. That was why it was written. Why would the DM pick such a meatgrinder and turn it into something it was never meant to be?

Once again, RttToH is not ToH. It's a real adventure.

 

[Nightcloak]

I'm gearing up tp run my epic group through this adventure. After reading this thread, I thought I'd ask them, just in case, to get their opinions. First person I asked (who I know played the original at least twice in the 1E days) was quite excited. Quote: "Bring it on. It'll be great!"

One man's 'meat grinder' is another man's challenge to conquer.

 

[Qwillion]

Not to mention one man's balanced game master is another's "killer GM"

It's all very relative.

 

[Nightcloak]

Not to mention one man's balanced game master is another's "killer GM"

It's all very relative.

Very true.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Once again, RttToH is not ToH. It's a real adventure.

Never played the origional. Around here, I'm a youngin'. I admit I never played Return; I was never allowed to play at all (players wouldn't DM)... and I didn't run published modules. I read them occasionally, the big ones at least, but I never actually ran them, more I stole ideas from them. I remember it being a real meatgrinder, though, from what I read about it years and years ago.

The main thing is, I agree, we don't know. That would be enough to worry me, because the module has a reputation. You don't go from 1st to 15th level with the same character in a game where RttToH would fit right in as is, IMO. I think the player over-reacted, yes. He should have talked to the DM about it, but I do think the OP is a bit too casual about dismissing the player's worries. Or maybe not, perhaps he knows the DM better and knows he won't kill them. Maybe the scared player actually played through the module before. Whatever the case, a possible switching of playstyles is dangerous business to leave ambiguity about like it seems has been done.

 

[Qwillion]

Actually the way Bruce R Cordell wrote the Return it does fit right in.

The lead hook in is a mystery, you could put it in any game. It's designed so that the problem encroches on a setting, if you live in that area you would want to find out why the entire crew of a ship except for the captain disappear, why a entire town disappears, why thier was a formerly famous adventuring company with only two surviving members, that could not solve this mystery.


Return to the Tomb of Horrors is one of the best minicampaign adventures I have ever read.

In the Dungeon were they reviewed the top 20 adventures of all time Monte Cook called it Bruce R Cordell's Masterpiece.

I think if you have not read this you should.