Were the 80s really the Golden Age of D&D?

[AllisterH]

Try this one: name major market share roleplaying games currently in existence that were not first published in some form in the 1980s. I can think of Rifts (1990) and Vampire (1991). Mutants & Masterminds might qualify.

That kind of proves that the 80s WEREN'T a golden age for RPGs entirely. For a long time, the two biggest competitors to D&D's crown were RIFTS and WW. Both of which are 90s era RPGs.

All of the 80s era RPGs never were popular enough to garnish ANY market share from D&D whereas those two did.

(Hell, throw in Shadowrun which was big in the 90s and came out in 89)

 

[Vegepygmy]

All of those reasons do presuppose that WotC employees are liars and willing to engage in lying in order to sell product, though. Again, I don't think there is any good reason to believe that.

They're human beings, aren't they? That's all the reason I need to believe that it might be true.

There is no reason to believe that it is true. There is also no reason to believe that it isn't true. Given both of these, the only rational belief to hold is that it might be true.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Honestly, you can't really classify it as the "golden age," because the title is meaningless. The 80's were a good time for D&D, yeah, but so was 2000 when 3e came out - remember, for many players, 3e and WotC wasn't just a remake of D&D, it was a full on revival. Hell, I'd say '98 and past was better for D&D, because that's when Baldur's Gate came out and used the D&D license to help save the entire cRPG industry. That series and Planescape: Torment are still touted as some of the best games to have ever been made, and they were D&D to the max.

 

[Ariosto]

I remember reading about this or that obscure RPG product back in the 80s and having no clue where to get it.

Was D&D among them?

 

[pawsplay]

That kind of proves that the 80s WEREN'T a golden age for RPGs entirely. For a long time, the two biggest competitors to D&D's crown were RIFTS and WW. Both of which are 90s era RPGs.

Therefore establishing D&D's unquestioned supremacy during the 80s. I'm sorry, I am having trouble understanding how this refutes anything.

All of the 80s era RPGs never were popular enough to garnish ANY market share from D&D whereas those two did.

(Hell, throw in Shadowrun which was big in the 90s and came out in 89)

Rifts never came close. Clearly, though, the 90s were the Golden Age of Vampire.

Conclusion: Yes, the 80s were definitely the Golden Age of of D&D, and not necessarily Shadowrun.

 

[Ariosto]

Clearly, though, the 90s were the Golden Age of Vampire. ... Yes, the 80s were definitely the Golden Age of of D&D, and not necessarily Shadowrun.

Yes, it is weird how some people seem so unclear on the topic at hand.

"But you're wrong about whether the 1980s were the Golden Age of D&D because ... [completely unrelated matter]." Was the Yo Yo the "retro" craze of 1998? So what?

 

[Doug McCrae]

I would've thought that, to an old schooler, the 80s would be Where D&D Went Wrong rather than a Golden Age. The 70s to the very early 80s would be the Golden Age, with Dragonlance/the departure of Gary Gygax from TSR/ publication of Unearthed Arcana representing the descent into storytelling nadir.

 

[billd91]

Granted, that's possible. But it has still been stated elsewhere by WotC reps that recent editions (3e and, later, 4e) outsold earlier editions. Again, unless one is ready to dismiss WotC employees as liars, there's no reason to believe that isn't true (and, yes, I know that there are plenty of people who do dismiss all WotC employees as liars).

I'm not convinced they actually said that. I saw postings about the pre-orders and first print runs, but nothing about sales of 4th edition vs, say, 1st edition. If they did make those claims, then they're saying that 4e, in 18 months, outsold 10 years of 1st edition. And that seems like a bit of a stretch to me.
If you can find the link, I'd like to see it.

 

[nerfherder]

That kind of proves that the 80s WEREN'T a golden age for RPGs entirely. For a long time, the two biggest competitors to D&D's crown were RIFTS and WW. Both of which are 90s era RPGs.

All of the 80s era RPGs never were popular enough to garnish ANY market share from D&D whereas those two did.

(Hell, throw in Shadowrun which was big in the 90s and came out in 89)

What about GURPS, Traveller, Runequest and Call of Cthulhu?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Golden Age:

1. A period of great peace, prosperity, and happiness.
2. Greek & Roman Mythology. The first age of the world, an untroubled and prosperous era during which people lived in ideal happiness.

Golden Age:
The ancients divided the life cycle into the Golden, Silver, Bronze and Iron Ages. The Golden was an age of primeval purity, simplicity and general happiness.

Golden Age:
1. the most flourishing period in the history of a nation, literature, etc.
2. Classical Mythology. the first and best of the four ages of humankind; an era of peace and innocence that finally yielded to the silver age.
3. (usually initial capital letters) a period in Latin literature, 70 b.c. to a.d. 14, in which Cicero, Catullus, Horace, Vergil, Ovid, and others wrote; the first phase of classical Latin. Compare silver age (def. 2).
4. the period in life after middle age, traditionally characterized by wisdom, contentment, and useful leisure.
5. the age at which a person normally retires.

That accurately describes the late 1970s and the bulk of the 1980s for D&D in general and, to a lesser extent, RPGs.

D&D didn't have any appreciable competition for the majority of that time. TSR created the hobby and was essentially a monopoly. The game was pure- kill the bad guys and take their stuff.

It wasn't until the end of that decade that you really start seeing any appreciable problems for D&D, heralding the "Silver Age" of RPGs: more competition (the end of the virtual monopoly), more bad press (gaming blamed by killers for their actions), and gaming getting an influx of new ideas (WoD). Black & White morality typical of PCs of earlier games was augmented (but not supplanted by) morality featuring shades of grey.

Yes, latter day games have been more profitable, but a "Golden Age" isn't about profitability, its about the environment.

The current environment- indeed, any period after 1989- has too much competition and turmoil to be a "Golden Age" of D&D, or even of the hobby.