Were there clerics in Lord of the Rings?

[dreaded_beast]

I'm watching my girlfriend play LotR for the PS2 and I started thinking about all the characters. If I understand correctly, DND took alot from Tolkien and the LotR universe.

That being the case, were there any characters in the LotR that could be considered a cleric or an inspiration for the cleric class?

 

[The_Universe]

I've read a couple of threads that made a strong case for the Wizards of Middle Earth actually being closer to D&D Clerics....but I don't have the links (or remember all of their reasons), here.

However, having said that, the Tolkien nazis are going to come to my office and beat me to death for daring to question the "proper" interpretation of the Holy Trinity of fantasy novels.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Yes, some stuff was taken from Tolkien.

However, D&D has a myriad of influences, many that look extremely little like D&D.
H.P. Lovecraft, for instance, is mentioned in the 1e DMG as suggested reading. Also, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and Conan are mentioned, both of which have no/little magic.

 

[Storm Raven]

I'm watching my girlfriend play LotR for the PS2 and I started thinking about all the characters. If I understand correctly, DND took alot from Tolkien and the LotR universe.

That being the case, were there any characters in the LotR that could be considered a cleric or an inspiration for the cleric class?

Not really. The Istari (more commonly called wizards) have some "cleric-ish" elements, in that they are essentially angelic beings who have taken mortal form who draw their power from their divine background. But as far as spell-slinging holy men wearing armor and bashing things with maces, there are no real prototypes in LotR.

As far as the evidence shows, the basis for the cleric class was a combination of the landholding Catholic warrior-bishops of the middle ages (that's where the original "only blunt weapons" restriction came from) with a healthy dose of spells drawn from miracles performed by various prophets in the Old Testament (sticks to snakes, part water, flame strike, resurrection, and so on). From there it has been refined over the various editions into what we have today.

 

[TerraDave]

Not really. The Istari (more commonly called wizards) have some "cleric-ish" elements, in that they are essentially angelic beings who have taken mortal form who draw their power from their divine background. But as far as spell-slinging holy men wearing armor and bashing things with maces, there are no real prototypes in LotR.

As far as the evidence shows, the basis for the cleric class was a combination of the landholding Catholic warrior-bishops of the middle ages (that's where the original "only blunt weapons" restriction came from) with a healthy dose of spells drawn from miracles performed by various prophets in the Old Testament (sticks to snakes, part water, flame strike, resurrection, and so on). From there it has been refined over the various editions into what we have today.

And the crusdar orders, like Hospitalers, and there is New Testament as well (all that healing...).

In fact, there origins where very much monotheistic...and St Cuthbert, an early addition to Greyhawk, is an actual Saint, burried in Durham Cathedral.

There is a story that Col. Pladoh's 1st wife wanted a strong Christian charecter in the game, hence the cleric.

The polythiestic elements have been emphasised more and more through time.

 

[Klaus]

Stuff that influenced specific aspects of D&D:

http://www.geocities.com/rgfdfaq/sources.html

 

[Storm Raven]

And the crusdar orders, like Hospitalers, and there is New Testament as well (all that healing...).

I view the crusader orders as being more likely the inspiration for the paladin than the cleric on the whole, although the specifics of the paladin class seem to be primarily drawn from a single character in one book (Three Hearts and Three Lions).

You are right about the New Testament miracles though, the creating food stuff seems to come from there as well (specifically the loaves and fishes miracle).

 

[der_kluge]

You know, that's all terribly interesting, but none of that answers the posters original question.

To that end, I don't think there are any clerics in the LoTR, with the exceptions of the elves who healed Frodo after he'd been stabbed by the nazgul.

There certainly weren't any in the Fellowship of the Ring.

Although one could argue that Gandalf is as much Druid as he is Wizard. I'd buy that. Or some sort of hybrid.

 

[Dr. Harry]

I'm watching my girlfriend play LotR for the PS2 and I started thinking about all the characters. If I understand correctly, DND took alot from Tolkien and the LotR universe.

That being the case, were there any characters in the LotR that could be considered a cleric or an inspiration for the cleric class?

Middle-Earth in general (from direct statements from Tolkien's letters) had very little religion in it. Tolkien wanted his world to be at least not-incompatable with his own personal (Catholic) religious beliefs. He also structured ME so that it could be said to correspond to some legendary period in the Earth's distant (legendary) past, out of the regret that England didn't have mythology of its own to compete with the mythology of the classical world.

Therefore, ME was monotheistic but without any direct revelation of the One to creation because to Tolkien Judeo-Christianity was the first contact with the divine, so this primoridal world had to deal with simply meeting the people who met the spirits (Maiar and Valar) who had been directly created and took physical form in the world.

Since the Maiar (the wizards were Maiar) were minor spirits with direct knowledge of Eru Illuvatar (the One), then they were intermediate, but never acted as intermediary, in the books. The Elves did venerate some of the Valar (the way some Christian churches venerate chosen saints), but they did not worship them.

Ergo, no clerics.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Although one could argue that Gandalf is as much Druid as he is Wizard. I'd buy that. Or some sort of hybrid.

Radagast was definately more like a druid than a wizard.

EDIT: mistype