Worlds of Design: In the Shadow of Tolkien

The answer is likely predicated on if you came to Tolkien before you came to FRPGs.

Picture courtesy of Pixabay.​

"Nobody believes me when I say that my long book is an attempt to create a world in which a form of language agreeable to my personal aesthetic might seem real. But it is true." - J. R. R. Tolkien

I read the Lord of the Rings (LOTR) when I was in my late teens, about seven years before original Dungeons & Dragons was released. (The Hobbit came later for me.) This is long before any LOTR movies, of course. Most of you have read LOTR (or watched the Peter Jackson movies) long after the release of D&D, I suspect, but still we can ask which came first for you, LOTR or D&D?

Which Came First (for You)?​

I’d suppose that Tolkien is likely to have a greater influence on your gaming if you came to Tolkien before you came to fantasy role-playing games (FRPGs).

This also might depend on when you started playing FRPGs. When I first played D&D (1975) the assumption was that the GM would mine fantasy novels and stories, and myths and legends, for ideas for his/her campaign. I remember hunting down Stith-Thompson’s Motif Index of Folklore Literature (in Duke Library), surely not something many GMs do today (even though today it’s a free PDF rather than huge paper volumes). There were few adventure modules and even fewer ready-made settings to buy. With this approach, Tolkien would be one author amongst many, maybe foremost but still just one.

Gary Gygax listed in Appendix N of AD&D the novels/novelists that had influenced him, including many long preceding LOTR. I’ve read most of the books listed in the Appendix, but I suspect many younger people have read few of them. Working from the list, Jeffro Johnson in his book Appendix N: the Literary History of Dungeons & Dragons, by reviewing these books, has ably demonstrated that there were a lot stronger influences on D&D than Tolkien.

Tolkien’s Expanding Influence​

Even before the Ralph Bakshi LOTR movie (1978) I gauged the likelihood that someone would like D&D according to whether or not they’d read The Lord of the Rings. (Many give up because the book starts slowly.) If they had not read it, prospects were much less rosy. Now, with many movies (Peter Jackson’s, Bakshi’s, and the Rankin Bass follow-up to Bakshi, and others more obscure), and even a LOTR TV series (Rings of Power), I don’t rely on my old view. On the other hand, so many more people are aware of LOTR (and of RPGs) than in the pre-movie past.

More recently, adventure modules and even settings of all kinds can be found online, including many that are free. GMs don’t have to make up adventures or settings, they can use someone else’s creations. Further, many of the old fantasy authors are virtually unknown to recent generations. But with the movies, Tolkien is even more well-known than when there were only books. Do the movies make Tolkien a stronger influence? Or do GMs today just accept whatever adventures/settings they acquire and not change much? For most these days, likely the latter.

Beyond Tolkien​

If you want more discussion of Tolkien’s influence, see my previous articles (Escaping Tolkien and Reassessing Tolkien’s Influence). As I wrote this, I asked myself, what’s the biggest influence likely to be, after Tolkien?

Conan the Barbarian (whether the savage Robert E. Howard version, or the more tempered ones by other authors that followed)? Wheel of Time? Game of Thrones? Dresden Files? David Eddings’ Mallorean and Belgariad? Brandon Sanderson’s Mistborn? Harry Potter? Superhero movies? Something from Appendix N days such as Poul Anderson’s Three Hearts and Three Lions?

Your Turn: Do you think the timing on your exposure to Tolkien’s works influenced your FRPG play?

 

[Scars Unseen]

My interest in fantasy and D&D both happened at around the same time for related reasons but through different means. My parents got divorced in the summer between my 3rd and 4th grade school years, and rather than live with either of them, I was shipped off to live with my aunt on the other side of the state (Texas). This resulted in a pretty abrupt reset to my recreational activities for two reasons.

On the one hand, I needed to make new friends, and one of the earliest friends that I met had some variety of Basic D&D that they had received from his older brother as they switched to AD&D (which we would switch to ourselves later that year). Through him I discovered D&D and a love of Monty Python.

On the other hand, I had moved from complete wilderness (I had lived in the middle of a 100-ish acre forest) to a large town close to Houston. I was the typical latchkey 90s kid that got left to their own devices and didn't spend much time at home, but Texas summers are brutally hot. So in the absence of a forest to provide me shade, I found myself spending most of my time in the public library. There I read mostly sci-fi and fantasy, most notably including the works of Isaac Asimov, J. R. R. Tolkien, Terry Brooks, C. S. Lewis, and Timothy Zahn.

There was some intermingling of the two interests, but my early D&D games didn't resemble any of my fantasy reading in the slightest, mostly being simple dungeon delving with no real story connecting adventures. Eventually, I did take some influence from my reading to D&D (I've always liked Brooks' style of magic always coming at a personal cost), but by then I was also bringing in influence from video games, anime and even music (Symphony X's album V is a fantastic base to build a campaign off of). On the other side, I did start reading D&D novels as well (mostly Dragonlance and Ravenloft), so if anything, I'd say D&D influenced my reading more than the other way around.

 

[Marandahir]

I was introduced to both early on by loving Rankin-Bass/Studio Topcraft (aka proto-Studio Ghibli)'s Flight of Dragons and their contemporary adaptations of both The Hobbit and The Return of the King (and The Last Unicorn to complete the quartet of these films, though that one is neither Tolkien related nor FRPG related).

As both my parents adored the books, I would have been exposed to Tolkien's Legendarium whether or not I had seen Flight of Dragons, but I can't remember whether I saw Flight of Dragons or Return of the King first. I know I definitely saw Return of the King prior to The Hobbit, but luckily by the time I first read Tolkien at age 10, I had only remembered vague images and ideas and melodies from seeing these 4 films as a 6 year old.

I remember being obsessed with Flight of Dragons and making my own combination board game / chess game / card game / RPG based on the events of the film and the imagery of the main character's FLGS and the chess board representing the 4 Wizards and their forces. I was trying to turn Chess into something more like a Tactical RPG, and way later in High School, when I first played Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, I realised these games scratched the itch I was looking for with the Flight of Dragons game I had made.

I was first exposed to Dungeons & Dragons properly in 6th Grade via 2nd Edition at my 11th birthday party, but we played theatre of the mind there and so the recollection wasn't triggered. But this was the same year I read all of The Lord of the RIngs and actually finished reading The Hobbit - I couldn't quite manage the year earlier. I think I was motivated by my father to read all four books before Fellowship came to theatres the following year. He wanted me to have my own relationship with the characters and the book and form my own ideas of these characters in my mind. I was still influenced by Rankin/Bass' images and melodies, but we made sure not to rewatch these until after I had finished the books. I did NOT remember Flight of Dragons at that time - the main theme was echoing in my head and dreams, but I couldn't recall the name of the film, just images and feelings.

Later on around the same time as the video games above, when I was 15-16, I was introduced to D&D 3.5e, and started playing with the group I would play alongside for the next 4 years or so. Given that we used a battle grid and miniatures, it scratched that same itch as well, but I still couldn't remember the reason - I still didn't recall Flight of Dragons and googling doesn't help when something is on the tip of your tongue (or at least I didn't know how to find that at that point). I was also exposed to Record of Lodsoss War at that point, around age 16, and the aesthetic of the show seems to be inspired a bit by the aesthetics of Flight of Dragons. I knew that I was remembering something but couldn't recall what it was.

In college I wrote a piece of music for freshman year music composition class, which I called Dream Cycle because it built off a melody I only heard in my dreams. But I hadn't connected the music to Flight of Dragons; I remembered it from a childhood dream that related to Turtles Through Time and a vacation in Puerto Rico, and The Mummy, of all things. It was a dream to me and I didn't relate it with the other nostalgic images and ideas from the film. The next year, I discoverd both TV Tropes and r/TipOfMyTongue, and successfully used one or both of these to discover the name of the film, and upon googling its theme discovered that my composition, while not plagerism, was definitely inspired by and shared a chord progression and repeating descending notes with the film's main theme. About a decade later I got into the MCU, and I was a bit less worried about accidental plagerism when I discovered that both the climatic battle music for THOR (2011) and the main theme of DAREDEVIL (2015) use the same descending note pattern. Either Patrick Doyle and John Paesano were riffing on Flight of Dragons too, or else this pattern was common enough to have a very different timbre in each of these 4 pieces of music.

After rediscovering Flight of Dragons, I of course rewatched it. I cringed at the cringy parts, but genuniely loved most of it that rewatch and still do to this day. I also noticed the FRPG elements in the movie, and chuckled at how some part of me must have yearned for this again when D&D came into my life. And when I realised it was made by Proto-Studio Ghibli (who made my absolute favourite movie of all time, Castle in the Sky, followed only very closely by Fellowship of the Ring), it all clicked together for me. I called my Mom to ask if she still had that board game I made when I was a kid for Flight of Dragons. She was able to find it the next time I came home, but unfortunately much of it was destroyed in a flood of the basement years earlier. Still, it was a joy to rediscover.

I don't cringe at the goofier parts of the hobby anymore. I embrace it! And the same is true for the 4 Rankin/Bass Topcraft films. Theres a lot wrong with them, but there's also a lot right. And I can accept the good and the bad and love them all the same. Anyway, that's my story introducing me to FRPGs and Tolkien, and why I said both at the same time.

 

[CF07]

Going to have to totally disagree. Huge difference between a story of redemption compared to a morally ambiguous, irredeemable, and lovable character like Vampire LeState. This is a new art form. Probably invented by Gone with the Wind, with the absolutely irredeemable Scarlet and Rhett. Worst people in the world and the entire country fell in love with them.

Every modern story like that from Blade to Bert Reynolds in Smokey and the Bandit can be traced back to GWTW.

I don't know I buy your characterization of Gone With The Wind as being so totally different than previous fiction and so influential, though it definitely did sell a lot of copies, I'll grant that.

Now Conan...lol. That's morally ambiguous. Han Solo is morally ambiguous. Like Rhett Butler, sure he's a hero and saves the day. He also only does it for himself.

Conan predated GWTW. Robert E. Howard was dead (June 11, 1936) before GWTW was published (June 30, 1936), so ambiguous has been established already.

But not Tolkien. His hero, Frodo is Christ like in his willingness to sacrifice himself for the good of the world.

There is no doubt that Tolkien was writing from a strongly Christian perspective but I totally disagree that Frodo is Christ. While I agree that Frodo is pretty incredible in his carrying a truly terrible burden, it is incredibly important to note that Frodo fails at the end and succumbs to the Ring. In a lot of ways he's more like the World War I soldiers who were heroes but came back broken by their experiences. Or if you want a religious analogy, he's more like a martyr who suffered an ordeal. But he's definitely not Christ.

Dwarves probably the most morally ambiguous thing in Tolkien

There are plenty of elves and humans who are morally ambiguous in the Legendarium... Elu Thingol, the Noldor who didn't participate in the Kinslaying but nevertheless went to Middle Earth where they did some pretty bad stuff, the Wood Elves of Mirkwood, many of the Kings of Numenor (and presumably the rest of the Numenoreans at the time) before things got really bad, and so on. Bilbo is morally ambiguous, for that matter.

 

[CleverNickName]

I'd say my interest in TTRPGs and Tolkien hit about the same time: I was introduced to both in 5th and 6th grade, along with Lloyd Alexander and Terry Brooks. Tolkien's works were a definite influence, but not any larger than most of the fantasy novels available at the time.

Great. Now I'm jonesing to re-read this whole series now.

 

[ART!]

Honestly? Not the most crazy notion. Bilbo only objects to being called a "thief" because he's a genteel country squire type. Tolkien's tone doesn't match the expected nature of swords-and-sorcery, but the narrative beats are all there. Heck, it's even a Big Deal when they find a small cache of magic weapons that are just like...pretty good at killing orcs, and can glow.

I've never thought about this before, but it makes sense. The fleeting nature of treasure, and the curse of wanting treasure or power, are very S&S and very Tolkien.

Yes, it's definitely got aspects of that. LotR also has a lot of horror aspects, primarily brought in via Tolkien's World War I experiences. And Middle Earth is in a lot of ways a post-apocalyptic world.

If also never thought of this before, but it's true. Some of the younger peoples don't know it, but for the longer-lived folks it's definitely true.

 

[dragoner]

Your Turn: Do you think the timing on your exposure to Tolkien’s works influenced your FRPG play?

Played Middle earth Role-Playing as it was, though it was also "magic items are everywhere!" Greyhawk as it's own world, and then an interpretation of D&D that was somewhere between Wizards, and Dune (with a bit of Heinlein's Number of the Beast thrown in).

 

[Theory of Games]

Bullfinch's Mythology was my gateway to ttrpgs (Basic then AD&D). People give Tolkien credit for mythological creatures he didn't create.

Bulfinch's Mythology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I tried to read LotR, but Tolkien's writing was so dry and boring I went on to enjoy Terry Brooks' Shannara series much more.

 

[R_Chance]

One thing I realized reading this thread... you people are (almost) all kind of young I'm 66 (67 in 3 months) by the way.

 

[CF07]

I've never thought about this before, but it makes sense. The fleeting nature of treasure, and the curse of wanting treasure or power, are very S&S and very Tolkien.

Yes indeed. The Hobbit is way more S&S than LotR. I don't think it's a coincidence that Gygax in Appendix N indicated that he was more influenced by the former than the latter .

If also never that of this before, but it's true. Some of the younger peoples didn't know it, but for the longer-lived folks it's definitely true.

Absolutely. Things like the Great Plague, the Fall of the Dwarven Kingdom followed by another one when Smaug took over the Lonely Mountain, and the overall decline of both Gondor and destruction of Arnor are evident. Even between The Hobbit and LotR, Eriador, with the exception of The Shire, get worse and worse. Tharbad is ruins and the bridge is out. Contact between Gondor and the North is essentially nonexistent. Personally I think Tolkien lays it on a bit thick in those respects, but, still, that's a big part of the story. Of course, much of this is because the Land lacks a True King.