Werewolf monk... how attacks work.

MaijinVegeta

First Post
In my current game i am playing a dwarven monk who contracted lycanthropy and decided to not get cured and play as a werewolf. Now what i want to know is what you all think on how his unarmed attacks would work. At the moment he is a 5th level monk, plus werewolf = ecl 9. His unarmed attacks do 1d8 damage and so far we have been adding the 1d4 into the calculation of damage (so an unarmed attack does 1d8 + 1d4 + str). Though i think that is wrong. Another thing that was pointed out to me is that werewolf gains the claw/claw/bite routine as natural attacks, and monks attack with everything (fist, foot, head, knee, etc). So would my werewolf monk in a full attack be able to flurry with his feet and then claw/claw/bite? i would say no, but notice in the printing of "Book of Exaltled deeds", the Rhek Chaosgrinder, pg 82 on a full attack action doing a Flurry of blows keeps his gore attack being his only natural attack, i read a few threads on the wotc messageboards that suggested a creature with a claw/claw/bite routine would essentially keep the natural attack routine + his flurry... this to me sounds a little overpowered and was wondering what you all thought. though i do like the idea of my monk in hybrid form having a full attack of
Flurry +9/+9 (1d8+4) 2 claws +10 (1d4+4) and bite +5 (1d6+2)...
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Lets put the Flurry of Blows aside for a moment and look at how mixing regular attacks with natural attacks goes. When mixing the two you make all your normal attacks (including itterative attacks) at your regular bonus. You then get your natural attack rotutine as secondary natural attacks at a -5 penalty (unless you have the Multiattack feat, then it is at -2.

So on a full attack you would do
Unarmed attack +10 (1d8 + 4) 2 claws +5 (1d4 +4) bite +5 (1d6 +2).

Now, about Flurry. The ability reads "When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack ony with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons" Which means you can't use your natural attacks when making a flurry.

And no, your unarmed strikes shouldn't do 1d8 + 1d4 + Str. You can choose either to do claw damage or the unarmed damage you learned because of your monk tranning but you can't stack them.
 



Will said:
Is there a reference to the normal and natural attack routine behavior?
From SRD

Natural Weapons: Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Likewise, it threatens any space it can reach. Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons. The number of attacks a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the type of the attack-generally, a creature can make one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions.
Unless otherwise noted, a natural weapon threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 20.
When a creature has more than one natural weapon, one of them (or sometimes a pair or set of them) is the primary weapon. All the creature’s remaining natural weapons are secondary.
The primary weapon is given in the creature’s Attack entry, and the primary weapon or weapons is given first in the creature’s Full Attack entry. A creature’s primary natural weapon is its most effective natural attack, usually by virtue of the creature’s physiology, training, or innate talent with the weapon. An attack with a primary natural weapon uses the creature’s full attack bonus. Attacks with secondary natural weapons are less effective and are made with a -5 penalty on the attack roll, no matter how many there are. (Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a -2 penalty on secondary attacks.) This penalty applies even when the creature makes a single attack with the secondary weapon as part of the attack action or as an attack of opportunity.

Manufactured Weapons: Some monsters employ manufactured weapons when they attack. Creatures that use swords, bows, spears, and the like follow the same rules as characters, including those for additional attacks from a high base attack bonus and two-weapon fighting penalties. This category also includes “found items,” such as rocks and logs, that a creature wields in combat- in essence, any weapon that is not intrinsic to the creature.
Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual -5 penalty (or -2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon.
 

Camarath said:
Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual -5 penalty (or -2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon.

So if i understand then as a 5th level werewolf monk i get full attack as such
Unarmed +10 (1d8+4), 2 claws +5 (1d4+4) and bite +5 (1d6+2) like Argo also stated earlier as well. My only question is again on the full attack of the only monk i've seen as a monster in a manual, the Rhek from Exalted Deeds gets a full Flurry of Blows, but keeps his natural gore attack... did i just miss an entry and he is special or what
 

MaijinVegeta said:
So if i understand then as a 5th level werewolf monk i get full attack as such
Unarmed +10 (1d8+4), 2 claws +5 (1d4+4) and bite +5 (1d6+2) like Argo also stated earlier as well. My only question is again on the full attack of the only monk i've seen as a monster in a manual, the Rhek from Exalted Deeds gets a full Flurry of Blows, but keeps his natural gore attack... did i just miss an entry and he is special or what
I believe the entry that lists the Rhek's full attack with Flurry of Blows too be in error. As I see it one can only use unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons to attack in the full attack action in which you use flurry of blows. And natural weapons are neither unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons so may not be use in the same action as flurry of blows. I believe that the writer of the Rhek entry forgot or misunderstood that provision.

One could argue that a flurry of blows only consists of the monk's normal attacks and those granted by flurry of blows (or even only those attacks granted by flurry of blows) and that additional attacks granted from other sources do not count as part of the flurry of blows even though they are part of the same full attack action. I do not believe that this is the case but if it was then the Rhek entry would be correct.
 

jarlaxlecq said:
also how are you handling alignment issues, since Werewolfs are CE and being bitten changes your alignment when you give into it.


He will have to make will saves at each involuntary change of form or become chaotic evil. Also, the first time he voluntarily changes form he becomes permanently chaotic evil. He will retain all current monk abilities, but will never again be able to gain new monk levels.

Also, Camarath was spot on. Flurry of Blows may only be done as a full attack action, and no weapons other than unarmed strikes or special monk weapons may be used during that full attack. The sample npc's attack routine was in error.
 

Korak said:
He will have to make will saves at each involuntary change of form or become chaotic evil. Also, the first time he voluntarily changes form he becomes permanently chaotic evil. He will retain all current monk abilities, but will never again be able to gain new monk levels.

Also, Camarath was spot on. Flurry of Blows may only be done as a full attack action, and no weapons other than unarmed strikes or special monk weapons may be used during that full attack. The sample npc's attack routine was in error.

Thanks guys, i appreciate the help ;)
 

MaijinVegeta said:
In my current game i am playing a dwarven monk who contracted lycanthropy and decided to not get cured and play as a werewolf...

That is a truly bizarre decision for the PC to make. Why would a monk voluntarily turn his back on his teachings to become an at least partly out-of-control CE werewolf? Makes no sense to me.

Lycanthropy is a CURSE - not a desired state. You can never control it the same way a natural lycanthrope can.

Here's a few highlights of why this is a Bad Idea:

...Thereafter, the character is subject to involuntary transformation under the full moon and whenever damaged in combat. He or she feels an overwhelming rage building up and must succeed on a Control Shape check (see below) to resist changing into animal form. Any player character not yet aware of his or her lycanthropic condition temporarily becomes an NPC during an involuntary change, and acts according to the alignment of his or her animal form.
A character with awareness of his condition retains his identity and does not lose control of his actions if he changes. However, each time he changes to his animal form, he must make a Will save (DC 15 + number of times he has been in animal form) or permanently assume the alignment of his animal form in all shapes.
Once a character becomes aware of his affliction, he can now voluntarily attempt to change to animal or hybrid form, using the appropriate Control Shape check DC. An attempt is a standard action and can be made each round. Any voluntary change to animal or hybrid form immediately and permanently changes the character’s alignment to that of the appropriate lycanthrope....

Control Shape is a wisdom-based skill that you'll have 0 ranks in right now, and you need a DC 25 check to resist an involuntary change.

The lowest DC to voluntarily change is DC 15 - which will be tough for at least a few levels. The lowest DC to change back is 20!!

An involuntary change will use up your next round - losing an action.

You do get a number of interesting abilities and characteristics, but is it really worth it?!?
 

Remove ads

Top