[WFRP] Hogshead Closes Doors

[Arcane Runes Press]

Now this is one of the most condescending and insulting things I have ever read about fandom. Please raise your hand if you enjoyed being called "barely functional". I can only wonder why someone with as much apparent bitterness towards fandom would choose to work in a niche (RPGs) that is heavily dependent upon fandom for its continued existence.

So that's another lesson. If you don't like the people who will be buying your products, the ones who are the most enthusiastic about them - maybe you're in the wrong industry.

As to the first bit, Mr. Wallis is absolutely right. "Fandom" is chock full of freaky weirdos. Not the majority, certainly, but a sizeable minority.

This extends to all areas and types of fandom as well. "Comic book guy" exists on the Simpsons because hordes of comic book guys exist in real life. Watch the movie Trekkies - there's an anecdote related by one of the Producers of the series about a fan who obsessively sends scripts to the production team. Every single one of the scripts features him, written into the series as a lieutenant who always, always saves the day.

The thing is, people who work on the industry side see the REALLY disfunctional side of the fan base much more often, and they see the truly worst parts of it. After just over a year of working professionally, I've already seen more than my fair share of seriously questionable folk. After 8+ years of exposure to the worst fandom has to offer, it's no surprise to me that Mr. Wallis isn't feeling particularly charitable.

Patrick Y.

 

[tburdett]

He just gave up and quit. I like the way that quitters use terms like 'burn out' to try and excuse the fact that they didn't have the ability to overcome whatever obstacle was in their way. I'm not impressed.

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

He just gave up and quit. I like the way that quitters use terms like 'burn out' to try and excuse the fact that they didn't have the ability to overcome whatever obstacle was in their way. I'm not impressed.

Wow:

Insulting, ignorant and arrogant.

Congratulations!

You scored a troll hat-trick.


Patrick Y.

 

[mythago]

Nobilis is, indeed, an interesting and highly innovative RPG. But the "our high art is for the elite!" attitude is constant background noise in the game, and it drags down an otherwise admirable product.

For me, reading the Nobilis book was a see-saw between "Wow! That's really neat!" and various levels of amusement at the self-congratulatory This Is High Art! bits. After reading the interviews, I am sad to say that the latter was obviously not just a figment of my imagination.

The defense of the book's odd size is especially silly. Should gaming stores have custom-built racks for Nobilis in anticipation of a slew of similarly-sized books? (My local game store just put them in a stack, and they sold like hotcakes anyway.)

The #1 complaint among gamers I know, btw, was on how to carry the damn thing. It doesn't fit well in a standard backpack, let alone a purse. (Or is the issue of book-toting just one more symptom of how the hoi polloi of the gaming world are unimaginative slumps?)

It's also, IMO, very odd to divide the world into d20/dungeon crawls and Nobilis, as though no-one else had ever gone outside of that box. Amber, in particular, goes farther than Nobilis in getting rid of dice and statistics rules--and it turns the Monty Haul theme on its head, by starting the players out as (effectively) gods. Though admittedly, it is grounded in mawkish SF rather than the uberhip Sandman genre.

I'm glad that Nobilis has a home, and I hope to see more of it--preferably heavier on the creativity and lighter on the sneering.

 

[tburdett]

Wow:

Insulting, ignorant and arrogant.

Congratulations!

You scored a troll hat-trick.


Patrick Y.

Trolls 3

Apologists 0

 

[Sammael99]

That struck me too. I would think that if that would bother you, you wouldn't take over a game with an existing fandom. Take the LotR movies for example. The people who made these were well aware that existing fans would watch there every move and critsize their every action. But they managed to get over this, in large part by explaining the fans what their vision was, why the medium differed etc. That and a profound knowledge of the work.

There is a slight difference in potential financial returns, though...

That being said, you can quote the guy all you like, he's right, at least to some extent. With some of my old RPG friends, we used to have a saying "Hey, remember it's not real !" that we used to quote tongue-in-cheek when someone around the table was getting a bit too heavy about in-game stuff.

I'm the first to admit that it's easy to get carried away and forget that it's after all only a game. But that's what it is. If you don't like a product, you can just not buy it instead of harassing the author and damning him to hell publicly... If you're not capable of doing that, well, Wallis is right : you really should get a life !

The only thing that did disturb me in the quote was that he seemed to imply that everyone in that hobby was like that. I believe he can't mean that or he would have quit a lot earlier...

 

[Sammael99]

Because they're the ones paying your bills?

I'm not being facetious here. It's one thing to be a starving artist, but becoming successful means you're selling out? I don't think so. I don't think Monte Cook has sold out, any more than James Wallis did. But R. Sean Borgstorm works in Silicon Valley, so the money involved in RPGs don't matter very much to her. Monte Cook does his RPG work as a full time job. They both found ways to make what they want to do work for them.

I'm saying that if your tastes in what you do runs towards the "niche" side, maybe you shouldn't do RPGs as a full time job, unless you're very lucky.

I don't hthink that was the point made. I don't think you sell out if you're succesful, I think, from an artistic point of view, you sell out if you do something you don't want to, or you don't like yourself, or you don't believe in, just to make money. Then it stops being art and it starts being business.

PS : I don't think of RPGs as art in anyway, so the analogy only goes so far...

 

[hellbender]

He just gave up and quit. I like the way that quitters use terms like 'burn out' to try and excuse the fact that they didn't have the ability to overcome whatever obstacle was in their way. I'm not impressed.

Well, you try putting up with role players for 8 years and see if you still feel like jiminy cricket. Give the guy a break, he did more work than most anyone in the industry, decides he has had enough, and gets ready for another career. And you are not impressed. That is not a quitter, that is someone seeing that the industry has ran its course for them. If you use your head, you would realize that it is the rare person that knows when to hang it up. You rather he ran himself and the company into the ground? Would that be impressive?

hellbender

 

[Desdichado]

Sorry, I meant the origin of the stock market, the chicken to sheep machine stock was sold in London. If you really want the real history of something, don't turn to the internet. As an aside, many of the powerhouse companies that have driven America were started by people who didn't invest in the stock market, and therefore actually *gasp* had control of their own money.
/hijack

hellbender

A a flip aside from some guy on a D&D message board is what, exactly...?

And what do you mean by the origin of the stock market. That page describes fairly accurately the origin of stock markets in general. The London Stock Exchange is younger than the NYSE -- it just celebrated it's 200th anniversary this last year. I'm sorry, it's easy to point to links that show you don't know what you're talking about and then say "don't turn to the Internet for your information." Instead, I'm to turn to you as the font of all knowledge here?

 

[James Wallis]

This news is hardly surprising. Wallis' attitude for years (since I first encountered him almost a decade ago on Compuserve) was that gamers weren't good enough for him. His attitude when Nobilis was released was "If you don't like it, then you're the kind of white trash the game wasn't aimed at. Step away, maggot."

Good riddance, say I. The RPG community with be all the better off without Wallis' snotty attitude and lame, mediocre products.

Dude! Haven't seen you since the Compuserve days. Good to see that some things never change and you're still an arse.

I think the number of people who have posted "I read Nobilis and man, this is over my head" messages kind of bear me out. Not every RPG is aimed at every RPG player, and we've never cared much for the lowest common denominator: that's the attitude that gives us boy-bands, soap operas and people like you. We did our thing. We had fun. Now we're cashing out and taking a long, long holiday in the Caribbean.

Have fun in the future.