[WFRP] Hogshead Closes Doors

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

I'd bet good money that you work in business.
I say this because, though what you wrote is technically true, it completely ignores the subjective aspects of value and job satisfaction.

Most people in the RPG industry are in it because they love what they do, not because they want to make money. Sure James Wallis could have made more money putting out d20 books, but that's not what he loves to do. Saying that he's a fool for ignoring 'market realities' completely misses the point.

No, I don't work in business, but I have to deal with costs and product design all the time.

Well, if you don't want to make money, then whether your games are profitable or not is quite besides the point, right? If it's hobby income, then you don't care whether it makes money, or whether you get paid. For instance: I wrote the 3E Temple of Elemental Evil conversion. It got posted to EnWorld, and that's it. I didn't get money. So what? I didn't do it for money. Now if I were to depend on it for my livelihood, then I'd be foolish.

Now James Wallis was doing Hogshead for fun. He also wasn't losing money at it. At some point, it became less fun, so now he's closing it down. Sounds like a rational business decision to me. I don't think he's being foolish at all!

The ones who are foolish are the ones complaining about it being hard in the gaming industry for their boutique games. You can't play the starving artist card and the "I want to make a living wage" card at the same time. It doesn't work. Just like artists/musicians who don't produce what the market wants, they either need to (a) find another line of work or (b) produce what the market wants.

Of course, the best situation is to enjoy producing what the market wants, which seems to be the position that Sword & Sorcery, Malhavoc Press, and Mongoose Publishing is in.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

LOL. Well said. I personally don't care if an author or publisher is a jerk (not that I think James is one). If I like a book or other product, I'll buy it regardless of the personality of the creator.

That might be true if I had an unlimited budget. While I've considered buying Nobilis on more than one occasion, something else from Monte Cook has always won out (I just bought Banewarrens). So in a situation with limited budget, I feel like rewarding the guy who's been nicer to me who also produces top notch product. If I were a billionaire, maybe I would have just bought everything and not given it a second thought, but I'm not.

 

[Bagpuss]

WFRPG has gone back to Games Workshop so it could be more than a temporary period out of print.

Presonally I'm more disappointed to see the loss of the New Style lines of games, Pantheon, Puppetland and The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen, were all excellent but the sort of 'out-there' ideas that will never find mass appeal.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

Presonally I'm more disappointed to see the loss of the New Style lines of games, Pantheon, Puppetland and The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen, were all excellent but the sort of 'out-there' ideas that will never find mass appeal.

I'm not so sure of that. I think that Once Upon A Time has had a lot more appeal to non-gamers that any RPG I've tried. And Baron Munchausen would also be great. I suspect that distribution and publicity has more to do with their relative status than the games themselves. If Hasbro put out Baron Munchausen, it'll probably do quite well.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

Hogshead interview is up

http://www.ogrecave.com/interviews/jameswallis2.shtml

Yikes! He does sound bitter, and more than a bit burnt out.

 

[Michael Tree]

Now James Wallis was doing Hogshead for fun. He also wasn't losing money at it. At some point, it became less fun, so now he's closing it down. Sounds like a rational business decision to me. I don't think he's being foolish at all!

Ah, I misunderstood what you had written.

The ones who are foolish are the ones complaining about it being hard in the gaming industry for their boutique games.

I wouldn't be so hard on them. A starving artist has a right to complain that what they create isn't a financial success.

So in a situation with limited budget, I feel like rewarding the guy who's been nicer to me who also produces top notch product.

Fair enough. I find that I'll look at a product I probably wouldn't have otherwise if I think the author's a nice guy, but if I really want a book, nothing about the author or publisher will make me change my mind.

 

[Michael Tree]

I'm not so sure of that. I think that Once Upon A Time has had a lot more appeal to non-gamers that any RPG I've tried. And Baron Munchausen would also be great. I suspect that distribution and publicity has more to do with their relative status than the games themselves. If Hasbro put out Baron Munchausen, it'll probably do quite well.

I couldn't agree more. I've introduced OUAT and Baron Muchausen to many people who would never play a standard RPG. They have a ton of potential.

BTW, isn't Once Upon A Time published by Atlas, not Hogshead?

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

BTW, isn't Once Upon A Time published by Atlas, not Hogshead?

Yep, but I believe Wallis had a hand in the design. At least, that's what he said in his first interview.

 

[JohnNephew]

I couldn't agree more. I've introduced OUAT and Baron Muchausen to many people who would never play a standard RPG. They have a ton of potential.

BTW, isn't Once Upon A Time published by Atlas, not Hogshead?

Yes, we publish it. It was co-designed by James Wallis, Richard Lambert and Andrew Rilstone. And it's sold far more copies than any individual RPG title we've ever published, D20 or otherwise. I haven't added it up lately, but total sales across five languages (and counting) are well over 100,000 units. Heck, I'm pretty sure the English edition has sold more copies this year than any of our D20 titles...and this is a game we first published in 1993.

I'm hoping that James and crew will have some more design time now. As fulfilling as it surely was to tend to someone else's baby (which is what you wind up doing a lot of the time as a publisher), I think he's got a lot more to offer the world as a game designer, and I hope now he'll have more time to do it.

In some ways I envy James. I, too, started a company with some expectation that I'd be using it as a vehicle for publishing my own creations. As it happened, I promptly found myself publishing the work of people like James, who are far better writers and designers than I'll ever be. It's hard to feel bad about not publishing something of my own, when instead I'm working hard to bring a classic like "Once Upon A Time" to the market.

 

[Sulimo]

This is sad indeed...