[WFRP] Hogshead Closes Doors

[Wulf Ratbane]

I think you're making an unwarranted leap to say that James Wallis is blaming D20 for his decision to wind down his business.

After being directed to his posts on RPG.net, I feel safer just assuming he's taking a shot at d20 fans in passing, whatever his reasons may be for packing in.

It has nothing to do with D20 (at least never that I can recall in numerous conversations on the topic), and more to do with the fact that even a company doing as stellar a job as Hogshead has ... a really tough time making ends meet. I would bet that James hasn't taken home much of a personal paycheck in all the years he's run Hogshead.

Well, I certainly sympathize with that on a personal level. I find it difficult to imagine that anyone who has been around the industry for even a smidgen of time does it for anything other than love of the game. I have to wonder why he made a point of mentioning that Hogshead was refreshingly solvent, though.

Nobilis may have wound up positioned as a "non-D20 game," but that's just smart marketing -- appealing to people who are explicitly looking for something that isn't D20.

I am not convinced that explains his posts on the matter. Of course, if his swipes at the intelligence of d20 gamers were simply just marketing bluster and bluff, good for him. I'm convinced by that, at any rate, and amply warned away. I am not a diceless gamer, however much the high-concept setting may appeal to me.

Back to the status quo for me...

Wulf

 

[Torillan]

Jeez.....

I for one didn't believe in the d20 hegemony theory until I read this thread. I'm amazed at the responses here. I'm amazed that people say "good riddance" about a company whose games they have never read, I'm amazed that because said company says they are frustrated with the RPG environment they immediately assume these guys are pretentious snobs. I'm amazed, in other words, at the intolerance that that kind of attitude entails.

Amen. Before I read that, I thought I was on the RPG.net boards, made up to look like EN Worlds.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

I believe Monte (him again !) wrote something about this a few months back. I'm happy of not being in the position every author is with the internet today of reading directly what people are saying and how they are critcising your stuff. at times, it must be agonising...

You must be referring to this article:
http://www.montecook.com/arch_lineos62.html

I agree with everything he says in that article. In particular, web bulletin boards and postings are particular places where what you write forever stays in public memory. My interaction with James Wallis took place almost a year ago, and it still gets dredged up every so often.

 

[Michael Tree]

I'm very saddened by this news. I hope that someone will pick up the publishing of Hogshead's New Style games, and that James himself will find the time someday to write more, now that he doesn't have to worry about running a company anymore.

Nicely taken out of context, whoever you are.

To put it in even broader context, this exchange happened after several weeks of flames and outrageously ignorant posts by belligerent idiots. Though James Wallis' response was uncalled for, and he should have apologized, you can hardly blame him for being oversensitive.

By contrast, my interactions with Lynn Willis, Monte Cook, Andy Collins, and other d20 writers and publishers have found them to be gracious, intelligent, and respectful of fans and other writers.

None of these authors have ever had to put up with even a fraction of the venom and abuse that was thrown at James. Perhaps he would have been better of simply ignoring the threads on RPG.net about Nobilis, but I can't fault him for getting involved to dispel the falsehoods being thrown around.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I don't see any big outcry of "hooray!" for Hogshead closing here. Quite the contrary. Who wants to see another game company close? I sure don't. I also don't understand why there is such consternation over the discussion about the press release. Reading it, one can easily see what is in question here. I don't think it's bad-mouthing or bashing to ask what was meant. Let's assume it had nothing to do with d20; what has made the current climate in the game industry such that Hogshead closed up? I'm simply curious, because these things interest me.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

To put it in even broader context, this exchange happened after several weeks of flames and outrageously ignorant posts by belligerent idiots. Though James Wallis' response was uncalled for, and he should have apologized, you can hardly blame him for being oversensitive.

Hm... That was the very first review of Nobilis on rpg.net. I don't recall anything prior to that. There was a bit of hyping, but certainly no flaming or venom. Most of the venom was directed towards badly written reviews, not Nobilis.

In any case, I don't blame him for being oversensitive, and he doesn't blame me for becoming an ex-Hogshead customer.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

None of these authors have ever had to put up with even a fraction of the venom and abuse that was thrown at James. Perhaps he would have been better of simply ignoring the threads on RPG.net about Nobilis, but I can't fault him for getting involved to dispel the falsehoods being thrown around.

I don't frequent RPG.net much, so I didn't know this. What was the gist of the venom - that is, what happened? Or is it one of those things we have to read for ourselves? EDIT: Actually, never mind; it suffices that there was a problem. I just want to be clear that I wasn't bashing anyone in any of my posts above, just in case someone construes it that way. I really have never heard of Mr. Wallis before this thread.

 

[Michael Tree]

In this situation, you can either ignore where the market is going, or try to get out in front of it (thereby potentially getting run over, but also potentially doing better than expected).

Now, if you didn't do so because you didn't believe in d20 (or because you don't like d20 fans, or whatever), then well, the ones who did believe in the d20 market *deserved* to win!

In short, if you ignore market realities, you're going to be very disappointed. And this goes for anything you do, whether it's making computers, writing software, or doing RPGs.

I'd bet good money that you work in business. I say this because, though what you wrote is technically true, it completely ignores the subjective aspects of value and job satisfaction.

To continue your rock star analogy, it's like blaming a music producer for wanting to produce musicians with insightful lyrics and interesting instrumentation, when he could be producing a some boy band and making much more money.

Most people in the RPG industry are in it because they love what they do, not because they want to make money. Sure James Wallis could have made more money putting out d20 books, but that's not what he loves to do. Saying that he's a fool for ignoring 'market realities' completely misses the point.

 

[Michael Tree]

Hm... That was the very first review of Nobilis on rpg.net. I don't recall anything prior to that. There was a bit of hyping, but certainly no flaming or venom. Most of the venom was directed towards badly written reviews, not Nobilis.

Oh. I stand corrected. I only vaguely remembered the exchange among all the background noise of ingorant posters, so I assumed it was somewhere in there.

In any case, I don't blame him for being oversensitive, and he doesn't blame me for becoming an ex-Hogshead customer.

LOL. Well said. I personally don't care if an author or publisher is a jerk (not that I think James is one). If I like a book or other product, I'll buy it regardless of the personality of the creator.

 

[Michael Tree]

grumble grumble double post...