[WFRP] Hogshead Closes Doors

[Wulf Ratbane]

I don't think it's fair to make an assumption about someone's reasoning and then blame them for it.

I look forward to reading that interview.

As I said, I was making a leap of logic as to why they said what they said, but whether the reason behind their comments is d20 or not, you have to wonder why they would make ominous comments about the future of RPGs and a return to the status quo.

Frankly, I don't see d20 as status quo. Folks are doing new and exciting things with it all the time.

I mean, approach this for a moment from the viewpoint of an "artiste," and you have to confess that ultimately it isn't the mechanics behind the game where the true art, the true craft, is found. Leave the crunch alone. Work with d20-- it's just the frame holding the canvas. If you have something new and exciting to say, something fantastic and artistic, say it in the lush details of your setting.

There is still plenty of evidence that today's RPG consumer will reward artistic innovation.


Wulf

 

[cbatt]

iirc, around the time they released Nobilis, some of the hogshead folks got pretty hot under the collar on RPG.net regarding negative comments about Nobilis. They pretty much lost my respect right there and then. Bunch of pretentious "RPGs as 'art'" asshats.

I only wish that you could buy Jolly Ranchers in the shape of little d20s. I'd send them a pound of Apple flavoured d20s with a note attached reading: "How do you like them apples?"

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

That's fine if you enjoy working with the d20 system. I can see why designers would rather do something else.

 

[NiTessine]

*Sniff* I liked the WHFRPG... It's a pity to see them go.

Well, only one thing that can be done now... Buy all the WHFRPG stuff from the FLGS!

 

[Ebeneezer]

iirc, around the time they released Nobilis, some of the hogshead folks got pretty hot under the collar on RPG.net regarding negative comments about Nobilis. They pretty much lost my respect right there and then. Bunch of pretentious "RPGs as 'art'" asshats.

I only wish that you could buy Jolly Ranchers in the shape of little d20s. I'd send them a pound of Apple flavoured d20s with a note attached reading: "How do you like them apples?"

This news is hardly surprising. Wallis' attitude for years (since I first encountered him almost a decade ago on Compuserve) was that gamers weren't good enough for him. His attitude when Nobilis was released was "If you don't like it, then you're the kind of white trash the game wasn't aimed at. Step away, maggot."

Good riddance, say I. The RPG community with be all the better off without Wallis' snotty attitude and lame, mediocre products.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

.What is it with game designers and that "blame the masses" attitude?

We've seen quite a bit of that since 3e and d20 appeared, haven't we? It shows a lack of introspection and an inability to critically assess one's work. It's easier to blame something else rather than oneself when things don't work out the way you want them to. If, indeed, d20 is putting that kind of pressure on one's game, why not try to figure out ways to directly compete with d20, or simply stake out a claim as a niche or boutique publisher? If one feels they are doing art, is the success of art based upon sales, or upon personal satisfaction in expressing oneself? Certainly, if one loses money, then it may be time to stop publishing, but in this case, according to Hogshead, this wasn't the case. Were they in it for love of the game or not? Warhammer is a good, solid game.

 

[cbatt]

Were they in it for love of the game or not? Warhammer is a good, solid game.

I just want to address this tiny bit of of your post (which, overall was quite insightful).

Warhammer is/was Games Workshop's creation. Not Hogshead's. They just bought the rights to keep the game on life support.

It may be a good, solid game (which it is, even if it's old school as all get out), but it isn't Hogshead's afaic.

BTW, according to their web site, the English language rights to WFRP have been handed back to GW. Which means it will most likely be mothballed, but you never really know.

 

[Ruined]

Well at least we got Realms of Sorcery, after waiting for six years or so when GW first announced it. Thanks for the extra material, Hogshead!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I just want to address this tiny bit of of your post (which, overall was quite insightful).

Warhammer is/was Games Workshop's creation. Not Hogshead's. They just bought the rights to keep the game on life support.

It may be a good, solid game (which it is, even if it's old school as all get out), but it isn't Hogshead's afaic.

Yeah, actually, I knew that (no, really! ), because my copy of the game is from GW. But this bolsters my point; was Hogshead in it for love of the game or not? If I acquired the rights to, say, Pendragon, I would have done it because I love the game, not because I saw it as a cash cow. The snarkiness of Hogshead's announcement, with its semi-veiled swipe at d20 and its players, gives conflicting signals to me.

 

[mearls]

Is that the angst-ridden cry of the bitter game designer I hear?

Don't get me wrong, I love Hogshead for what they did for WHFRP, but I'm going to take a little leap of logic here and surmise that they aren't happy that Joe Gamer is happy with d20.

Actually, in my experience James Wallis doesn't hold anything against d20. He wanted the WFRP adventure I designed for him, Fear the Worst, to include d20 stats. I was even planning on creating a d20 troll slayer prestige class. Alas, that didn't happen. I think GW wanted to steer clear of any potential problems with the OGL and their intellectual property.

James is probably the most professional, intelligent person I met in gaming. He paid me in full for Fear the Worst when he easily could have let it slide. I would gladly stop writing d20 material if I could pull a full-time wage working exclusively for Hogshead.

The simple truth is that one can only produce so much RPG material before it gets old. The money ceiling is low. I've probably already maxed out my yearly earnings after 2, 3 years in the business. The technology is essentially in stasis ("innovation" and "RPG design" are almost mutually exclusive terms), the industry lacks an established base of criticism and design knowledge, the audience is limited, and precious few of the people who run game companies have clue one about business or an inkling of professionalism.

What you're looking at is a simple proposition: keep doing what you're doing and accept that the money is never going to get better, or take risks and hope for the best. If the risks don't pan out, then it's on to another gig. For some, that's another RPG endeavor. For others, it's something completely different.

The only difference between James Wallis and the many other people who leave this business is that he bothered to post a good bye note. I don't anticipate doing the same when I move on to something else.

FWIW, Fear the Worst will be made available as a free PDF download from Hogshead's site. It's the best adventure I've ever designed, so it's rather bittersweet to see it released. I was looking forward to see it in print, but at least as a PDF it's out there.

If I have time, I'll post a d20 conversion of the adventure to my web site.